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Unread 03-17-2011, 06:40 PM   #1
Sean12
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Kerdi Board Counter questions

Hi,

First, thanks for all your help with my ceramic floor. It looks pretty nice!

My wife and I decided to do a 'Forest Green' marble tile on the counter ( http://www.bargain-outlets.com/catal...6&dept_id=5500 ). I heard that marble is a bad choice for a counter, but we really like that tile so we're willing to live with it.

I'm going to use KerdiBoard; I just picked it up today. And, I have a couple of questions.

1) Can I tile the edges? I don't like Schluter's steel edge trim; I'd much rather cut some strips of tile to use. Can I attach to the edge of the Kerdi Board? To the white foam part, not the orange 'face' of the board. If so, how? Just plain ol' thinset?

2) Can it support a sink? Do I need to make a frame or any sort of support to help hold it up?

3) I like the look of the 'tile under' sinks I've seen here. How do I do that - just set an undermount sink on top of the Kerdi Board, and tile over the flange? Is there anything else I need to know / do/

Thanks for your help and advice!

EDIT - Another question - is deflection a consideration in this case?
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Unread 03-17-2011, 08:11 PM   #2
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Hi Sean, yes you can thinset tile to the raw edge. What thickness do you have? That green marble you have needs to be set with epoxy otherwise it can warp. I don't think an undermount sink would work.
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Unread 03-17-2011, 08:12 PM   #3
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Welcome Sean

1) Yes & a good quality unmodified thin set.
2) Yes it will support a sink. I have used scrap board - whatever you cut out for the sink will work fine - and kerdifixed them to the underside as additional bracing.
3) Run a bead of kerdifix around the perimeter of the sink cutout before you set your sink. After setting your sink and as you set the perimeter tile I run another bead of kerdifix or a clear 100% silicone to seal between the tile and the sink.

Marble is a soft stone and can/will etch with soda/wine/mustard etc spills. It also will scratch fairly easy with utensils/pots/pans. As long as you can live with these "imperfections" it can make a beautiful countertop.

Musky beat me to it
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Unread 03-17-2011, 08:40 PM   #4
jadnashua
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You might be happier with the marble in a honed finish rather than polished. The polished will be scratched and etched fairly quickly unless it is just a show kitchen and not used. Honed will give you a fighting chance to keep it looking decent long-term.
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Unread 03-17-2011, 08:56 PM   #5
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Yep, it is honed, according to the stickers I found on it.
How does honing differ from a polishing process?
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Unread 03-18-2011, 12:40 PM   #6
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The easiest way to think about that is to consider grit of sandpaper used to smooth something...use 60grit, and it may be smooth, but the large grit will leave some scratches...use 4000grit (about the equivalent to what's used to polish stone on the final polish), and it will be almost like a mirror. They just call the 'sanding' honing when done on stone. So, if the stuff you bought is honed, they stopped the polishing process somewhere mid-cycle. It will still scratch and etch, but it won't show as much.
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Unread 03-18-2011, 02:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
posted by Sean:
1) Can I tile the edges? I don't like Schluter's steel edge trim; I'd much rather cut some strips of tile to use. Can I attach to the edge of the Kerdi Board? To the white foam part, not the orange 'face' of the board. If so, how? Just plain ol' thinset?
If you cut strips of the marble for the edging are you doing to have them bullnosed? To give you a nice rounded edge.
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Unread 03-18-2011, 02:57 PM   #8
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Jim,

Thanks for the explanation. I was wondering what 'honed' ment.


Jon,
No, I was going to leave it square-edged. How could I get a bullnose? Is that something I can do? Are there businesses I could take my tiles to and get it done? I agree, I think it would look much nicer like that.
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Unread 03-18-2011, 03:34 PM   #9
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Sean,

Granite / countertop fabricators and some tile buys (like me) have equipment to put a bull nose on almost any tile. The tiles should be "full body" or natural stone or glass. Full body means the color of the tile is the same all the way through the thickness of the tile as on the surface.
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Unread 04-01-2011, 07:47 AM   #10
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Decided to go with the Rondec after all. Some questions

NOTE - I answered some of my own questions after posting, and edited this to include them. I put a note with EDIT after them to show this, with the answer I found (in case anyone else comes along and finds my post while looking for an answer themselves).
--

So I saw the Roundec-CT in a tile showroom, and it looked great! I didn't like how it looked in the photos I've seen, but in person it's pretty nice.

I figured I needed 17' 3" feet to get my project done. Of course they come in eight foot lengths only, so I had to get a whole extra piece for 15". Gonna have a lot of leftovers! If anyone in Buffalo needs a few feet of Satin Copper/Bronze ...

For the Ditra product, Schluter has an excellent installl guide and tech manual. That's good, since I like to do everything 'by the book' when I can.

Unfotunately, I haven't been able to find a book for Rondec-CT or for KerdiBoard.

So does anyone know where I can find one? I've searched the Schluter site with no luck.
EDIT - Some info is spread out over three documents:
http://www.schluterkerdiboard.com/me...D-Cutsheet.pdf
http://www.schluter.com/media/WallCountertop-ENG.pdf
http://www.schluterkerdiboard.com/me...te_gb_1208.pdf

My main questions are -

What kind of support does KerdiBoard need for countertop applications? Especially in the sink area. The sink we like is an enameled cast-iron - it is VERY heavy. There are also stainless and acrylic models we could go with if need be.

I'm guessing I need an unmodified thinset to adhere tile to KerdiBoard - correct? I want to make sure because everything on the shelf at my local Home Depot is 'polymer modified' or 'fortified'. I might have to drive all over Buffalo to find the good stuff like I did with my floor if I need to use unmodified.
EDIT - Yes, unmodified is necessary.

White thinset only for marble, or doesn't it matter?

And, for the Rondec-CT - thinset only on the KerdiBoard surface for the Rondec trapezoids? Or on the edge as well?

Tiles go straight in to the rondec, right? I don't need to slide them in from the end? How do I get thinset into that small space with a big trowel? Can I just scoop it in with a putty knife and not worry so much about combnig ridges?
EDIT - Backbutter the tiles

Sorry for all the little nitpicky questions - I want to make sure everything gets done 100% right. I'd hate to re-do this and have all my time and money be a waste because of some small, stupid mistake.

Thanks, everyone!
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Last edited by Sean12; 04-01-2011 at 09:29 AM. Reason: Answered some of my own questions
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Unread 04-01-2011, 06:11 PM   #11
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Sean,

So you liked the look of the Rondec CT in person. I did one towards the end of last year. The customer did not want a solid surface, picked out some nice porcelain. I did not use any kind of guide but I can let you know how I did it to help you along.

Support, I used kerdi-fix caulk to attach the kerdi-board to the top of the cabinets. 2" kerdi-board is very strong, I put a cast iron sink back in my project no problems or extra support was needed. Don't know if you have any corners on your countertop but they make special corners to accommodate that, otherwise you will have to miter the outside corners. I would highly recommend corners for a nicer finish.

White is only necessary if you are using natural stone like marble. I used the Laticrete 317 unmod. thinset. For my project I cut all the Rondec CT one day and at the end of the day used kerdi-fix to attach it all, not thinset. Once I had it all in place I used clamps to hold it in place overnight. This way when you are setting the tile the profiles are not moving around. I put small blocks of wood between the profile and the clamp, not the finished part of the profile but the part you are tiling over. Use the appropriate notch trowel which will give you the proper height so the tiles are even with the top of the Rondec CT.

I used thinset to put the tiles in on the sides, doesn't take much. You could use kerdi-fix but too messy. Thinset is easier to clean out. You don't have to slide them in, just backbutter and set them.

I left the protective plastic on the profiles till I grouted to help protect them, you want to wipe them good if you don't. I did a backsplash as well on mine, used Rondec with the same finish to cap the top of the splash, I went about 4" high. Inside and outside corners with that profile too.

If you like I have a picture somewhere. How are you cutting the profiles, I have a DeWalt chop saw and it made the job very easy, couldn't imagine doing it any other way.
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Unread 04-01-2011, 06:30 PM   #12
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Here are a few pics of the process. My project presented a challenge with the peninsula. She didn't want any kind of support under it like a leg and no room for wood supports because of the cabinet door, she didn't want to block it. I created a support element which you won't need. You can see the corner pieces, I would recommend using them if you have an outside corner. I used blue tape on the corners to hold them in place. You can see how nice the splash worked with the same finish. This wasn't the job where I did the cast iron sink, I did another project for her.
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Unread 04-01-2011, 10:10 PM   #13
Sean12
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Thanks for the tips and the pictures - that looks like it came out nice; I think the Rondec what the right stuff to get.

My order came in this week, and I did get corners for all of the exposed corners.

I went to two Home Depot's and one Lowes. One HD and the Lowes had no mortars that were not 'polymer modified' or 'fortified' (I assume Fortified means modified). The second HD only had Latticrete MegaBone, so I got that in white. It was fairly cheap, so I hope I didn't get junk.

Jon, I'm glad you mentioned the chop saw. All I have is a Dremel, a few angle grinders, and a hack saw. I have a miter saw, so I might see if I can find an abrasive blade that will fit it, so I can get some clean, square cuts.

Tomorrow's the big day; wish me luck!
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Unread 04-01-2011, 10:15 PM   #14
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Ok - just had a thought. Has anybody tried cutting Rondec with a wet saw?
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Unread 04-02-2011, 06:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
posted by Sean:
The second HD only had Latticrete MegaBone, so I got that in white. It was fairly cheap, so I hope I didn't get junk.

Jon, I'm glad you mentioned the chop saw. All I have is a Dremel, a few angle grinders, and a hack saw. I have a miter saw, so I might see if I can find an abrasive blade that will fit it, so I can get some clean, square cuts.
MegaBone...... sounds like something you would buy your dog Megabond is unmod. and will fit your needs. When I went into this job I did not have a chop saw, had left it on a jobsite and it disappeared. I am skeptical you will be able to use a miter saw, I don't think the arbor size will work. I am sure you could use a grinder or hack saw but will it be straight enough? For those outside corners..... try to use a side you didn't cut. Cut the side of the Rondec CT going against the wall.

You mentioned about cutting the Rondec on the wet saw, most of us have but not a good idea especially for CT, it will bind up. Very dangerous. You'll ruin your wet saw blade too. For the job I did, I wouldn't have done it without the chop saw. Too many inside & outside corners.

I would suggest a hack saw and use a miter box, this will allow you to make a straight cut. Spend one day just making those cuts and fitting the Rondec CT, if you use a hack saw it will take all you got For your grinder you can get a special blade, I know I have used one that cut through steel.
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