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Unread 05-20-2013, 06:55 PM   #1
MDtile
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PVC vinyl waterproof pan membrane tutorial

I don't get the chance to train my guys anymore, I'm either doing non-install stuff, or I am usually solo if I do these pan membrane installs. So here we go.

Some of our builders opt for hot tar pan membranes, others have us do PVC. We don't mind. We can charge about $400 for a simple one like this @ $25/sf. The materials run maybe $75-80 for one this size, including the Pro Slope kit.


Step 1: prep and install Pro Slope pre-slope kit.

First thing I do is inspect the framing etc, looking for blocking flush with studs, drywall 3" above a 4 1/2" tall (min) curb, and a solid- mounted drain flange. If all that is good, I Make sure there are no sharp nails etc sticking out which could perforate the membrane
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Next is to install the Noble Pro Slope. I just love these things. At $40 for a 40 x40, they aren't cheap, but they install in about 10-15 minutes. That makes them worth it. I'm not going to get into these, they come with easy to follow instructions, and all you need to cut them is a sheet rock knife and a straight edge. I needed some extensions for this pan, 4" on 2 sides and 1" on the other 2.

Like this:
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Step 2: measure and cut membrane.

This pan measured 60 1/2" wide including the vertical sides from left to right. Front to rear included the rear vertical side and the entire curb all the way to the outer floor measured 62". I roll out some pan membrane; this is Dallas Specialties 40 mil PVC vinyl. We paid $160 for a 75ft roll 6 ft wide.

Here it is cut to 60.5" by 62":
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I fold the sides 6 1/2" on 3 sides left, rear, and right and then fold the curb portion a couple feet:
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Step 3: install membrane.

1st thing to do and VERY IMPORTANT! Put a bead of Nobleseal adhesive around the drain, and then I use a piece of the membrane to spread it all over the bottom drain flange, and filling the 3 clamping bolt holes, like this:
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Attachment 144462
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Lay the folded membrane, and check placement by folding up the sides. Adjust until the 3 sides fit right to the drywall, and the corners are not rolled:Name:  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1369097326.954168.jpg
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Last edited by jgleason; 05-22-2013 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Remove photos at owner's request
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Unread 05-20-2013, 06:58 PM   #2
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Marty,

you doing mud over that drywall?
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Unread 05-20-2013, 07:16 PM   #3
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The corners should look like this:
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And this:
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Now staple the left and right sides RIGHT BELOW THE DRYWALL. Now we can fold the corners, NOTHING GETS CUT! Should look like this:
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And this:
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Fold and staple:
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Now we move to the corners at the curb. Hold the membrane straight up at the curb, and find the inside corner of where the top of the curb meets a side wall. Take your time and get everything just right like this:
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Find that top-of-curb corner and cut STRAIGHT UP:
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Hold the corner like this, staple at just under the dry wall, then cut off the excess at the bottom edge of the drywall like this:
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Last edited by jgleason; 05-22-2013 at 07:36 PM.
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Unread 05-20-2013, 07:23 PM   #4
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Now you can fold and staple under the drywall (like the rear corners), and add 2 staples right on the fold above the curb:
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Now do the other corner at the curb exactly the same way you did the 1st:
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I forgot to say I put a corner on each curb corner before I put the membrane in, but I will show those now. They can replace the pre-formed corners in a pinch, and add extra protection, they look like this:
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Back after I eat diner ( the wife is calling, better go before I don't get fed LOL!

To be continued....

Last edited by jgleason; 05-22-2013 at 07:37 PM.
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Unread 05-20-2013, 08:18 PM   #5
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Ok, fully re-charged and ready to wrap this up.

Step 4: Curb corners.

We have to seam it up in the space above each end of the curb. For this, we need both Nobleseal adhesive (sorry no pic), and a can of PVC cement like this:Name:  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1369101171.392504.jpg
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Run a bead of the NS adhesive from just below the curb top up the edge of the fold:
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Now we get out the PVC cement, and using the dauber coat the flap of the corner piece (if you are using these, if not skip to the next step). Do both corners at the same time. Coat the 2 surfaces of the corner and the underside of the curb flap. Wait about a minute, then stick together all glued parts:
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Step 4 for pre-formed corners:

These are made by Noble also. Some inspectors want to see these, you are safer using them. They look like this:
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Spread glue on the backside of the pre-formed corners, and the entire area where they fit at each curb/wall junction. Spread more area not too little, a thin but wet coat is fine. Allow to dry for about a minute, and then stick them on. Hint: get them right into the corner using your fingers to push right in the corners of the P-F corners, then push on the rest of the surfaces of the corners. They should be stuck down good:
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Final step: install the upper drain flange.

First cut-out the drain pipe opening. Find it with your fingers by pushing on the membrane. After finding an edge, stick the razor knife in against a wall of the pipe and cut around following the pipe opening:
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The black thing you see is a rubber stopper for the water test. Next, find the 3 clamping bolt hole in the bottom flange. I like to use a small screwdriver to find them as you don't want to make any holes anywhere else:

(cont)

Last edited by jgleason; 05-22-2013 at 07:37 PM.
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Unread 05-20-2013, 08:35 PM   #6
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Name:  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1369102728.778319.jpg
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And carefully cut-out the holes for the bolts like this:
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You can see the Nobelseal adhesive we put on the flange. If the bolt holes aren't filled with adhesive, put a squirt in each one.

Place the upper flange on lining-up the bolt holes. DO NOT PUT ANY NOBLESEAL ON THE TOP FLANGE! It doesn't need to be sealed here, and you might clog-up the weep holes.

Look at where the drain screen screws are. The plumber usually lines them up L to R or F to B. Make it look good in that respect, and then tighten the bolts nice and tight like this:
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Check that the weep holes are clear.

That's it, all done! Always perform a water test. Full it up right to where it is almost ready to crest the curb. You have not put any penetrations through the membrane anywhere below the top of the curb except where the flange mounts. There is nothing that can leak as long as you didn't accidentally drop you knife in it (ask me how I know that can happen).
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This took me 45 minutes because of taking the pics. A simple (no seat) one like this is usually 1/2 hour once it's prep'ed.


Last edited by jgleason; 05-22-2013 at 07:38 PM.
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Unread 05-20-2013, 08:46 PM   #7
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Yes, this will be a mud install. I will lath it tomorrow. I already lathed 2 tub backs in this house and one next door. I'm shooting for 2 houses ( 2 tubs, one two-wall w/ tub platform stall each house) to be ready for inspection Wednesday morning, a crew will start same day ( I leave everything except the inspected walls for them to do LOL!)

We only do mud on all tubs or showers.
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Unread 05-20-2013, 09:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDtile
Yes, this will be a mud install.
OK, didnt want to mislead someone to put up drywall with no vapor barrier.

I dont think too many outside CA do 1 step mud walls do they ?
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Unread 05-20-2013, 09:39 PM   #9
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I can't say I know.

99.9% of the time it's one-coat over drywall. It was like that in Reno NV also. Those are the only areas I have worked.
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Unread 05-21-2013, 06:45 AM   #10
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Arizona does one-coat. Might be the entire West. Not sure.
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Unread 05-21-2013, 07:32 AM   #11
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I have gone off studs a couple times, as it was set-up that way and the builder wanted it. I can't say I liked it, I don't like installing expanded-type lath, and I would rather just get it floated and move on (omit the scratch coat. What's kind of funny is that I like to use a one-coat version of the traditional thick bed.

I do a quick coat to cover the wire and then "burn it in" (flat trowel it good, like burnishing). Then I hit it with a scarifier. I do this on all walls, or at least a couple in a larger stall. I like to do this as it gets it expelling moisture better.

Then I build trowel-wide plateaus where the float strip will set. It is easy to gauge the thickness visually that way. I set the strips. I scrape-off any build past the strips.

Next is fill off the strips, attempting to keep the strips uncovered, and laying on the mud as flat to the strips as possible. Then I screed. I get kidded by my bro about screeding the whole wall in one shot sometimes with about a hand-full on the straight edge LOL! The reason I try to minimize the extra mud is because the wall comes out much smoother with less ripping, and less "re-activation" (or working-up on the wall). Not to mention the time/energy savings, and because I was taught to do it that way.

The "scratched" initial coat really allows you to finesse the fill without worrying about the mud trying to cleave. If the float gets thicker like say 1"+ it also becomes less likely to activate @ the wire and do the dreaded "avalanche roll", God I hate it when that happens....

Last edited by MDtile; 05-21-2013 at 07:54 AM.
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Unread 05-21-2013, 07:28 PM   #12
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Nice and all, but, isn't this in the liberry already?
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Unread 05-21-2013, 08:55 PM   #13
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Thats cool that some people still use panliners.Do u listen to an 8 track while installing it?
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Unread 05-21-2013, 08:56 PM   #14
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Unread 05-21-2013, 10:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilauea
Thats cool that some people still use panliners.Do u listen to an 8 track while installing it?


He typed it all on his Apple IIe. Saved it on his 8" Floppy Disk.
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