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Old 10-01-2007, 04:44 PM   #1
tiny
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deflecto

Hello, I am planning on doing a travertine floor in our main bath. I checked the deflecto calculator on your web site, I have 2 x 10 fir joists which our 16 years old in good condition. Whole span is 16 ft long with a steel beam at one end and the trusses sitting on the poured wall at the other. The scale says that at 10 feet which the span would be if I install a new beam it is good for stone. That would leave a 10 ft span and a 6 ft span. i cannot get the beam installed any other place because of windows in the outside wall and also heat ducts in the way. Even at this I need to reroute some plumbing to get a beam in place. the question is should I install a steel beam or would 2, 2 x 10 headers be good, the span across would be about 12 ft. Thanks John (tiny)
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:44 PM   #2
Davestone
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I built a beam in a basement once that was 4 2x10's nailed together, even then i thought i could feel some give. If you think about it even a dip of 1/8" of vertical travel,in a subfloor would cause a major malfunction of your tile job.I would go for the steel if you can afford it. Others wil say i'm crazy.
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Old 10-01-2007, 06:21 PM   #3
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I can help you size that beam John but a 12-foot span is way too much for L/720 results. Can you get at least one intermediate supporting column in underneath it? Say at the 6-foot or 8-foot mark from either end?

---------------
P.S. Additionally we'll have to size the existing steel beam supporting the joists in question to make sure it meets L/720. But first lets take care of the new one which needs to be added.

Last edited by Mike2; 10-02-2007 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 10-01-2007, 06:33 PM   #4
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Welcome, Tiny.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davestone
Others wil say i'm crazy.
Well, yeah, Stoner, some of us will indeed say that, being a generally truthful lot. But what has that to do with Tiny's question?
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Old 10-01-2007, 06:48 PM   #5
tiny
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Thanks guys, regarding Mike 2 question, I have a closet wall which is non bearing, in the width of the space(the 12 ft) I can remove the drywall and install a column there. it would be at 7 ft. the outside walls are also drywalled, i was going to remove the drywall, and put in a adjustable column at each end. Lengthwise I have a 8 x 5 in steel beam at the one end supporting the first floor of the house inserted into a pocket hole on one end and columns supporting it in the middle,floor joist on top of that. on the other end the joists sit on top of the poured wall. I would be adding the one in the middle at 10 ft from the steel beam end. That would give me a free span of 10 ft and a span of 6 ft. Mike do you think that the 12 ft span is to long even for a steel beam without the middle support? Thanks John

Last edited by tiny; 10-01-2007 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 10-01-2007, 08:58 PM   #6
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Mike do you think that the 12 ft span is to long even for a steel beam without the middle support?
All depends upon what size of steel beam you find acceptable, John. According to the beam calc software I run (BeamChek), for a 12-foot span a 4'x8' 4"x8" steel beam would be required to get you to L/720. That's a lot of weight to manhandle down there, eh?

Alternatively, if you could put in one column support reducing the free span (you pick the number) at 6-feet for example you could get by with (2) 2x10's. Now that would be a lot easier to handle, no?

Last edited by Mike2; 10-02-2007 at 08:32 AM. Reason: corrected typo
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Old 10-02-2007, 05:14 AM   #7
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All depends upon what size of steel beam you find acceptable, John. According to the beam calc software I run (BeamChek), for a 12-foot span a 4'x8' steel beam would be required to get you to L/720. That's a lot of weight to manhandle down there, eh?
A 4'x8' steel beam!!!???? Do you mean a 4"x8" steel beam?
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Old 10-02-2007, 06:13 AM   #8
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Floor Stiffness Ideas

John:

There are two additional considerations to stifffen your floor:
1. Consider the use of a composite-wood "parallam" beam, rather than a steel beam. These engineered wood beams are typically sold through Home Depot. The actual sizing of the beam can readily be determined by contacting the technical dept of the beam manufacturer, Weyerhauser (sp?). Perhaps CKl111 might be able to determine the appropriiate beam size using his beam check program? I have used a 16'-long 11" x 3.5" parallam beam for my own renovation, which I brought home in my MPV van from Home Depot.

The advantages of using a wood beam include the ability to make connections to the beam (nails, screws, bolts), saw it to size on site and erect it etc with your own tools and minimal labor. Typical HD steel vertical support posts are easily used at the beam ends and readily connect to the beam.

2. Consider also strengthening the existing individual joists. Information in the thread "Bedroom to Bathroom" discusses how this approach will immediately increase the 2 x 10 joist stiffness by a factor of 2.5 using 2 x 6s - easily enough to accommodate a 12' span for natural stone.

Michael

Last edited by Plainrider; 10-02-2007 at 06:22 AM.
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Old 10-02-2007, 06:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin
Do you mean a 4"x8" steel beam?
Well, he'd not mean a solid beam as in wood, Colin, but 4"x8" in a steel I-beam is a common size.
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:46 AM   #10
Brian in San Diego
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CX,

Colin was pointing out Mike2's typo. Mike wrote...
Quote:
for a 12-foot span a 4'x8' steel beam would be required to get you to L/720. That's a lot of weight to manhandle down there, eh?
My emphasis on the 4'x8'.

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Old 10-02-2007, 07:57 AM   #11
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Well, didn't I tell John a 4'x8' steel beam would be hard to manhandle. Least I got that part right.

Yeah John, I'll go back up there and change that to a 4"x8" steel beam.

Last edited by Mike2; 10-02-2007 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 10-02-2007, 10:06 AM   #12
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Well, hell, I thought it was Colin's typo.

I, of course, would have no trouble with either beam, but I can see where you young sprouts might have a little difficulty with that big'un.
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Old 10-03-2007, 03:55 PM   #13
tiny
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Thanks Mike 2 and everyone else also. I am going to go with the 2-2x 10,s I can hide the beams in the closet wall that is already existing. Will have to tear it apart some but I think this would be the best and easiest option. John
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