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Unread 02-28-2004, 08:41 AM   #1
muley
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Deputy sherriff came calling yesterday

Yesterday I took a load of junk to the local transfer station. One sheet of ply, two sheets of busted up durock, and about 10 empty cardboard boxes. When I drove on the scale the attendant said 1.5 cubic yards, 23.00. I said BS, this is a minumum charge 15.00. We argued and I told him they have been ripping people off for too long. I wrote a check with business name and number etc for 15.00 and told him that's all I was paying and drove off. Needless to say a local deputy called and said they were going to charge me with theft of services if I didn't go back and pay the 8.00. I told him the 8.00 wasn't the issue, it was the point of being ripped of by these theives. I told him I wouldn't pay the 8.00 and I would sit in the pokey before I paid them 8.00. I also told him this was a civil matter, not a criminal matter. Nobody measured the load or told me how much it would be prior to dumping, therefore, there was no established price, and thus coundn't be considered theft of services. I'll find out today whether I go to jail or they agree with me, I have support of the wife and I'm not backing down. Who is right here, me or them?
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Unread 02-28-2004, 11:20 AM   #2
Steven Hauser
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I don't know

You really want to go to the pokey for $8.00?

Dude you will make that in 5 minutes out and working.
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Unread 02-28-2004, 11:34 AM   #3
Harry
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You are probably morally right in principal, but because they didn't solicit your business you are subject to whatever they want to charge. I'd pay the money and follow through after with civil court and perhaps write an article or call your local political representatives. Make lots of noise.
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Unread 02-28-2004, 01:32 PM   #4
David Taylor
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Both Steven and Harry are right for their respective reasons.

I'll add that your first choice was to dump at this place. There's a reason for you choosing it, whether it's that the next closest dump was miles away but charged a little less or this dump was the only show in town.

Often enough, it isn't what you pay for your first choice, it's what the cost for the next-best alternative is.

If you want to make a stink about it, know that they are usually the ones with the resources. Pay the extra and apologize to the attendant and sheriff for wasting their time - it'll pay dividends in the future and the short-term pain will pass. They might even cut you some slack next time you cross their paths, but you won't know unless you try. Just think what they'll do if you don't throw out an olive branch.

Just a thought - what did you dump that couldn't have been recycled in some way?
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Unread 02-28-2004, 06:07 PM   #5
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Heres just a thought fi ya smoke or drink thats 8 bucks there. I would pay the 8 bucks in pennies if it was me. Make them unrolled and make them count it they have to take change by law unwrapped or wrapped. And next time dont rite a check then they wont find ya thats why I pay cash for everything how do you find an address on cash you dont.
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Unread 02-28-2004, 06:56 PM   #6
David Taylor
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If you go to the dump, you normally have a vehicle (unless you're looking for a newer one ) with you. The vehicle has licence plates.
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Unread 02-28-2004, 07:29 PM   #7
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Thats when you drive away like a bat out of hell ( so they don't see your plates) and just give 'er off the scales!. "Drive 'er like ya stole 'er boys! YYYEEEEEEEHHHAAAAAAAA!
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Unread 02-28-2004, 07:31 PM   #8
David Taylor
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Ah, you bring back a lot of memories, Randy.
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Unread 02-28-2004, 07:35 PM   #9
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So ......Dave..are you admitting that you stole cars when you were younger? BBBAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!
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Unread 02-28-2004, 08:25 PM   #10
opiethetileman
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Gee I have a spare tag of my dads in the truck it is a State Firemarshall tag lets me park where I want when I want and how I want. And get into neighborhoods with out ???'s
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Unread 02-28-2004, 08:41 PM   #11
Davy
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I got in to it with a guy at the dump once, they had a stupid rule that you had to unload your truck from the back. I had a flat bed and I was unloading it off the side. He said he could have me banned from dumping there. Wow
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Unread 02-28-2004, 09:02 PM   #12
muley
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Talked to the deputy this afternoon. Because they charge by both cubic yard, and weight, depending on which is more money, and the fact that they admitted they didn't measure or tell me the cost in advance, they could not establish a legitimate price prior to dumping. According to the law, the full price must be known, and intentionally ignored, or intent to not pay in advance must be established. Neither was the case. They received what I considered proper compensation, they disagree. This is considered a civil matter in the state of Montana, or at least to the deputy exercising his right of descretion. The deputy elected not to file charges. Ironically, he told me after it was all done that he had a similar situation with the dump not 5 months ago. He did add, however, that although he disagreed with the charge he did pay it. I'm just glad it was resolved. For those of you who said just pay the 8 bucks, woe to you. It's not about 8 bucks, it's about what is right. I wouldn't go to the clink over 8 bucks, but I damn sure would over principle. I will never subordinate what is right, to the fear of the law, as most of you know, that's just the Montana way.
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Unread 02-28-2004, 09:48 PM   #13
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Well, I, for one, support your position, Muley. Standing up against the arbitrary abuses of petty bureaucrats is something we should all do more of. At every level of government.

I'd tend to agree with David Taylor if the encounter had been with any private enterprise, but not with a government monopoly that is allegedly in place to provide a public service. Not the same thing at all.
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Unread 02-29-2004, 01:37 AM   #14
RandyL
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Oor you could just do like I said......drive and run buddy.....drive and run......
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Unread 02-29-2004, 02:35 AM   #15
jjwq8
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GMT +3 sucks when you guys are having fun while I'm asleep.

Check out the statutes on "invitation to treat". Any posted price under English law is an invitiation to treat i.e. bargain.

That said there is no such legal animal as fixed price.

It must work for services too coz since Thatcher binned property rates in the UK as a source of local council revenue and replaced them with a poll tax I have refused to pay a penny. I am constantly in court as a result and although I allegedly owe many thousands, the courts are angling toward a settlement in line with the original ratable value, being around 10-15% of the poll tax bill.

My position is strengthened by the fact that I can demonstrate that I do not make use of any of the services that the poll tax allegedly pays for.

Sorry for the digression but I suggest you check out the invitation to treat.
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