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Unread 05-24-2020, 11:02 PM   #1
buldogge
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3rd Floor Bathroom

Hey Guys...I've been working on a much delayed 3rd floor bathroom.

I have all the rough-in done (plumbing and electrical) minus the shower drain/trap placement and valves, most of the subfloor/underlayment laid (again, minus shower area), and started hanging drywall today.

I will have a bunch of questions, I'm sure (even after reading a ton of great threads), about a Schluter/Kerdi shower install...but first:

1) The one wall that will be drywall/painted is done to 1" thickness using 2 layers of 1/2" drywall. The wall contains a pocket door and the extra thickness accommodates a plywood sheath for the pocket door area to add some stiffness to the crappy Johnson metal studs.

So...I will have kerdi-board meeting the drywall about 6" outside the shower curb, and the shower tile will continue ~3" past the curb.

I have seen plenty of threads describing the transition, so I am good to go there...but...I am wondering if I should: a) seek out 1" kerdi-board b) furr out the studs with 1/2" BCX scraps and use 1/2" Kerdi-board (which is readily available), or c) install the Kerdi-board over a layer of 1/2" drywall.

2) Similar issue...The drywall ceiling is 5/8" drywall on resilient channel...this equates to 1" total distance from joists...where it will meet the tiled shower ceiling (again 3" past the curb), should I follow a), b), or c) above. Has anyone hung KERDI-BOARD on resilient channel? bad idea??

3) Lastly, if I have the height (8'-6" before shower pan/bed) should I run double 3/4" ply in the shower area, or just stick with the 3/4" + 1/2" that I have run close to the curb area, so far. I have not decided between a mud bed and a Schluter tray...current subfloor is 3/4" BCX over old growth 2x10s, 16" OC.

I can snap some pics tomorrow, if necessary...

TIA
Mark in St. Louis
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Unread 05-25-2020, 10:19 AM   #2
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Welcome back, Mark.

1. Any of those would be acceptable. I would choose b.

2. Don't understand. Why would you want something other than the 5/8ths" drywall ceiling?

3. The double layer of subflooring you have would be more than adequate under your shower regardless the type of receptor you use. You could also eliminate the second layer of plywood in that area and build a deck mud shower floor on the nominal 3/4" layer, but the second layer is always a good idea.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 05-25-2020, 06:18 PM   #3
buldogge
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Thanks CX...

1) My only concern was the stiffness of 1/2" Kerdi board (based on some threads, here)...having said that, i will be using 1/2" on the other 2 shower walls...

2) I will be tiling the ceiling in the shower area, and there will be a rainhead...I assumed kerdi-board would be a good idea, here.

3) As far as the subfloor...It's also one of those "using up the materials I have on hand"...I think I have enough 1/2 and 3/4 BC to go either way, but I'll have to look in the garage, again, as I've been focused on drywall this past weekend...

Someplace called Flooring & Decor can order the 1" in, if I want...they keep the 1/2" in stock (along with 2").

-Mark in St. Louis
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Unread 05-25-2020, 06:18 PM   #4
buldogge
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Also...If anyone has any input or options on the Schluter linear drains, I would love to hear it...

Still deciding on drain set-up.

TIA
-Mark
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Unread 06-11-2020, 11:58 PM   #5
buldogge
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What about this?

OK...Let's move on to a different line of questioning (although I would still like to know how 1/2" kerdi board "feels"/performs on a tiled ceiling)...

I know you guys are (mostly) gonna say "just build yourself a mud bed"...but...let's just say I am gonna use a Schluter tray.

The floor area of the shower is 65"W x 56" D.

Let's say I choose the Schluter 60" x 60" center drain tray.

I add 2.5" of mud pack to both the left and right side...no biggie.

Question...normally Schluter recommends cutting equally from all sides...since that is not gonna happen, what do you think about taking all 4" from the curb side and leaving the inside wall side alone?

Although this would lead to a now non-center drain, front-to-back, I should point out that the final drain position is not yet set, as I have not "glued" in the p-trap, yet, and have left the drain pipe long.

TIA
-Mark
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Last edited by buldogge; 06-12-2020 at 07:43 AM.
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Unread 06-12-2020, 09:34 AM   #6
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Mark, the uneven sides of a cut-down and/or added-on foam shower tray are just one of the downsides to use of those trays. The Schluter tray, for example, does not even have the required 1/4" per foot slope from the far corners to the drain. That's right out of the box. If your subfloor is not perfectly level - not just near perfectly flat, but both flat and level - the lack of pitch will be exacerbated in one direction.

You can, of course pay the large dinero and then cut one to fit and use deck mud to fill in the edges that are short, but if you're gonna need to use deck mud for part of it, why not use deck mud for the whole thing and make a properly pitched shower floor that perfectly fits your footprint and drain location as well as saving substantial money?

Sorry, the foam just doesn't compute for me. If I had half a dozen or more showers to do in a single location and had the option of framing all the showers the perfect size with a flat, level floor and placing the drain for a perfect fit, I might consider using the trays to save some time if I were in a big hurry. Even then I'd need to take a hard look at it.

You certainly can do what you're suggesting. Your project, your time, your money.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 06-12-2020, 05:25 PM   #7
buldogge
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Thanks CX...

I may just end up doing a mud bed, anyhow.

It just occurred to me today as I was doing the final plumbing for the shower heads, from the valves...the kneewall configuration of the bathroom, with the 45 sloped wall/ceiling section means that visual center is not really room center and I would be much better off laying my drain wherever I like, as opposed to "on center".

Unless my wife changes her mind and goes back to a linear drain and then then eye will be fooled.

I think I'll get all the kerdi board hung this week and then make a final decision...

-Mark
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Unread 06-19-2020, 12:25 PM   #8
buldogge
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Kerdi-board Question

Quick kerdi board/kerdi niche question (hopefully)...

Since the kerdi niche is designed with a 2" flange to accommodate the required 2" kerdi band seam overlap...what happens when you are cutting in on a single stud situation...much like drywall, you will have (2) sheet/board edges sharing the center line of the stud.

This will leave 1.25" flange on the niche. I cannot double stud the left side, as venting runs directly next to the stud...if necessary, I could double stud the right side.

Does it even matter?

TIA
-Mark in St. Louis
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Unread 06-19-2020, 12:49 PM   #9
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Having a joint centered over a stud is fine. For sealing, as long as you get a minimum of a 2" overlap, it will work. Note, when butting sheets, unlike drywall, you put one washer/screw into the seam between them - the washer (and then the banding) keep it all together.

Regarding the linear drains, if you like the look, your least expensive drain cover is one that you use your own tile for rather than one of the pretty metal ones. Those, unless it's on the entrance of the shower, are pretty much a matter of taste. Some of the designs could allow water to flow over them in some circumstances when used at the entrance...at one end or the middle, doesn't really matter.
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Unread 06-19-2020, 03:44 PM   #10
buldogge
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Well...

That's the thing...You can't get a 2" overlap if you center stud attach.

You will have 1.25" from the seam of the sheet/niche to the inside edge of the niche.

As far as the fasteners, yes, I am familiar with the attachment method...this is why double studs are of no use...the fasteners would just ride the stud seam, then...not ideal, in my experience.

I guess there's really no way around it...I should have built a rough opening with 1" rips to the inside of regular studs...but...a little late for that , now.

Thanks,
-Mark
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Unread 06-19-2020, 04:40 PM   #11
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I think you're misunderstanding the 2" overlap requirement...that's not for the board, it is for the reinforcement tape (Kerdiband) either side of the seam. The boards are designed to be installed on studs (nominally 1-1/2" thick), and half of a sheet either side of centerline of that 1-1/2" width when you need to make a seam. IOW, the boards are designed to be installed 3/4" on a stud on a seam.

The narrowest Kerdiband is 5", so you can get that 2" minimum with a little slop in case it isn't quite centered.
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Unread 06-19-2020, 05:01 PM   #12
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Jim, I think Mark's concern is no having a full two inches of coverage available on the niche lip for his banding to the wall board if the two pieces are to meet in the center of a wall stud and the niche is flush against the stud. I think it's a valid point, and I don't know what Schluter's solution is for that. Don't worry, be happy?
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Unread 06-19-2020, 05:18 PM   #13
buldogge
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CX is on it...bingo.

Kerdifix bead around perimeter, between edges...extra bandaid...?

Wrap the band into the Niche interior?

-Mark
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Unread 06-19-2020, 05:45 PM   #14
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If I had an inch and a quarter bonding surface on a vertical installation, Mark, I'd be content with that. See my warranty information below.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 06-19-2020, 09:04 PM   #15
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Wrapping the band into the niche wouldn't be an issue for me. KerdiFix, if you have some on hand works on seams, too, but is way more expensive.
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