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Unread 04-22-2021, 06:54 AM   #16
Just In Tile LLC
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I bought 6’x8’ foot liner that I use on my floors for protection. I just fold it as needed to fit whatever space I’m in at the time. Best part about it is, I can hose it down after scratch or float day for easier clean up on those days and reuse it when I’m tiling.

Lou, we have the same apprehensions except opposite. I have a comfort level with mud and every time I try something new I get upset it’s not mud or has the properties of mud. I absolutely can’t stand trying to get any type of board on the wall in a plumb fashion when there’s jacked up framing with insulation and/or electrical or plumbing running through it.

I always think why in the world am I fighting to get this prep right when I could of just mudded it and called it good...that reason alone is why I’ll never put it down completely. It’s just too easy to get things to come out just how I want.

I’ll have to start a fan club for those scratched tub pictures.
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Unread 04-24-2021, 05:26 AM   #17
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Golden nuggets for quality tips
thanks Muddawgs!!

Very very true & on point Justin!!
mudwork is tried and true and really simplifies the complexities into possibilities. I’d pay top dollar if you made an only fans of mud work, LMAO
Jerry’s mud work is insanely tight, tidy & precise. It continues to blow my mind what he creates on his pools and absolutely wild how he takes 3:1 with an admix in the water; mixed like deck mud thats a smidge too wet but still would fly as dry-pack and pumps out the artwork everytime..

Lou, not sure if you got a source for fat mud. May have been mentioned already by Davy or Justin. I’ve finally switched over to their recommendation of The Scratch and Brown Stucco Mix from Lowe’s/HD.
Quality stuff and very user friendly let’s you work it and hardens up right, great price also. Picked up 5 yesterday for $40 with taxes
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Last edited by CaliGrown; 04-24-2021 at 05:31 AM. Reason: Late night bs
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Unread 04-24-2021, 09:34 AM   #18
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Quote:
not sure if you got a source for fat mud
I’m planning on picking up some bagged sakrete mix from a drywall & masonry place - scratch and brown maybe? Stucco mix? I forget the exact name. I’ve had quality problems with my local HD, with product being out of date. And I don’t have a Lowe’s nearby.
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Unread 04-24-2021, 02:50 PM   #19
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That’s the stuff Lou, presaged makes life a hair easier
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Unread 04-27-2021, 08:00 PM   #20
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1. How do I prep the curb for mud? Wrap the 2x lumber with roofing felt and lath?

2. In photo from original post, it shows that the shower door opening doesn’t extend the full width of the shower. Do I need to somehow fashion an outside corner out of lath so its continuous (or at least overlapped) from curb to jambs to walls? If so, any pics that show this? Or can I just butt the lath in that area together?
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Unread 04-28-2021, 10:45 AM   #21
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Bend lath over your liner with the on the bottom of the outside face of the curb.
Either way will work. If you can bend a piece to make the lath continuous it’s preferable
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Unread 04-28-2021, 01:51 PM   #22
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Thanks Chris. There’s no liner though, it’ll be Hydroban (liquid or sheet) over mud - walls, floor, curb, everywhere. I’m presuming there’s no restrictions on where I can fasten the curb lath, or really where I can put any fastener in general.
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Unread 04-28-2021, 03:08 PM   #23
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That's right, Lou. Go ahead and wrap the curb with felt paper and lath, fasten it on all 3 sides since you're not using a traditional pan liner.
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Unread 04-28-2021, 05:46 PM   #24
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Very good Lou, nail and staple where you please
The Hydroban will give your inside corners that anti-cracking feature
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Unread 04-28-2021, 06:25 PM   #25
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So I referenced your original photo Lou and noticed your specific situation might be where you aren't going to tile the outside wall of the curb? Is all that paneling staying? Or will you be tiling on the outside of your shower entry as well?

I prefer to wrap tile to the outside , but understand isn't always what the customer wants.

If you weren't waterproofing everything with hydro, we'd give more specific advice on how to get a tight wrap on your curb with only fastening on the outside, but since you can fasten all the way around it that won't be necessary.
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Unread 04-28-2021, 07:03 PM   #26
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Thanks guys.

Some more questions

1. This is the product I picked up https://www.sakrete.com/storage/comp...DS_10-8-18.pdf

Do I need to slake this stuff?
What kind of pot life should I expect?

2. When I fasten lath over solid lumber (like curb top and jambs) do I want some space / flex between lath and lumber? Or do I fasten the heck out of it to get it tight to lumber?

3. What kind of window of time do I have to scratch it? Do I need to get it done within 30 minutes? 60? 90? I know it was brought up 20-30 but I’m expecting to be slow.

Quote:
...noticed your specific situation might be where you aren't going to tile the outside wall of the curb? Is all that paneling staying? Or will you be tiling on the outside of your shower entry as well?
Yes, paneling is staying. It’s beadboard up to about 3’, capped off by wooden chair rail. Then tile from that point up to the ceiling. Unfortunately, the beadboard carries over the outside curb face, so mud will stop at the leading edge of curb top.
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Unread 04-29-2021, 06:51 AM   #27
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Alright Lou so I've used Type S (structural) mud before and it works but I find that specific bag you have can be very smooth sand so it wont hold as well to the wall as a Type N (non-structural). Reason being the Type S has less sticky in it to achieve the structural rating that is needed for its normal use...foundational type applications. It works...but might throw you off how easy mud can be since this will be your first time and think all mud will behave the way that one will.

Slaking is necessary in my opinion because the work time is greatly extended, when you just mix the mud and try and go it'll set up quicker, sometimes a lot quicker. Pot life or working time depends on temperature but I'd say 45min to 1 hour and a half is normal. But don't be afraid to loosen it up if needed once or twice, this is not thinset .

You can fasten the heck outta it where needed. They make self furring lath, which has dimples to give a space behind lath but how we normally build showers its not sheathed so just the flex in the paper behind the lath gives that space. But I would not be concerned about fastening normal lath to those solid areas in a shower that you have.
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Unread 04-29-2021, 07:04 AM   #28
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Hi Lou. I'm typing slow this morning but that mud should work fine.

1. Yes, I'd let it slake about 10 minutes. Then remix. Pot life will vary due to temperature. With wall mud, I don't have a problem splashing a little water in it and remixing if it starts to set up. I try to avoid doing that but I have to do it about every time I use it, which is quite often. But usually I have it used up before it starts to set the second time. You can continue to mix it without adding any water several times. The key is to make small batches so you can get it used up without wasting a bunch of it.

2. I would put #15 tar paper over the curb first. Just a few staples is necessary. Then add the lath and put staples about every 4-5 inches apart. This will be a very strong curb.

3. Again, temp has a lot to do with the timing of the mud setting. You should have 45-90 minutes to do it. Have everything ready to go before mixing any mud.

You talked about a scratch coat but you can do it in one coat if you want. A scratch coat would help the finish coat go up easier. As far as scratching the mud, you can do that as soon as you get the curb covered and smoothed out.
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Unread 04-29-2021, 01:59 PM   #29
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Holy crap. Only able to get in a half day today but was I ever optimistic thinking I’d get to scratch coat today. Not even done hanging felt and lath. Comedic relief for you guys.

It’s a tiny shower with niche, header, jambs. In hindsight maybe a 3 wall tub surround would’ve been a better project to start on.

1. I’m using lath screws. Is this overkill? Is there a better / easier fastener to use? I tried using a manual staple gun with 1/2” staples but on the lath overlaps they weren’t getting much of a bite.

2. What’s the fastener pattern? Every 12” along the studs?

3. One sheet of lath doesn’t wrap all the way around the shower. Do I need to end it over a stud so the overlap with next sheet is over solid framing?

4. Over some stud bays, there’s some flop where a sheet of lath overlaps the one below it. I’ve tried kinda bending it into the stud bay to push the 2 layers together but that doesn’t do anything. And it’s in middle of a bay so I can’t angle any kind of fastener to pull things tight. Do I just leave it be?

5. How in the world do I get a sharp crease in the lath to turn inside corners? I’ve tried running a hammer up and down in the corners. Also tried pushing a “L” straightedge into the corners. But at best it gives me a radius turn...not a 90 by any stretch of the imagination.

It’s especially problematic because the shower door opening isn’t centered...on one side it’s just a single 2x4. So within that 1.5” I’m trying to bend the lath around an inside corner and then immediately around an outside corner.
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Unread 04-29-2021, 06:18 PM   #30
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Lou, this shower is a good starter mud job especially since you are going to paint it afterwards. You're getting all the unfamiliars out of the way.

Your screws are overkill for sure and time consuming, a hand stapler will work (not my first choice) but you really want a nice one to drive those staples well. I personally use a pneumatic stapler. They are about $30 bucks and save a ton of time. The most common method is a hammer stapler though, which I've used most my career but I prefer the pneumatic one since it drives them so consistent, no real force needed... and my favorite thing about them they don't shake the wall when applying the staples like a hammer stapler does.

In some areas they want you to nail off the wire every 8" inches? I personally use just 1/2" staples and drive them every 4" or so.

On the wire you definitely try to end on a stud because it can be floppy otherwise, I've used small zip ties to hold loose overlaps tight because sometimes I'll use old wire that's been sitting on the side of my house and it has weird bends in it from other things setting on it while it rides in the bed of my truck. Most times though you can pre bend the wire BEFORE it goes on the wall and it will spring into the stud bay instead of away from it, But having new wire straight from the store is easy peasy.

I use my level to pre-bend the wire in a straight line, then once it's on the wall and stapled I'll run my snips down the corner. Turns out pretty nice. Remember though the scratch AND brown will negate a small roll in the corner because of their thickness, so don't stress too much, but get them as tight as possible. Hard to explain how tight the corner should be until you actually float and see what matters and what doesn't.

On a sharp turn like you've said with the shower door, I get the inside tight, then as I wrap around the outside corner you just hit it with a hammer to mash it down before you staple... But I suspect you are trying really hard to keep everything full sheets. We do cut the wire to make it easier Guys I learned from didn't even roll their inside or outside corners, just cut each wall separate sheets (no inside wraps) and even cut the 3-1/2" strips for stud sides. Only thing that was wrapped wire was the curb. I say this so you don't lose too much sleep, mud is VERY lenient. Bends are preferred though
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