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Unread 11-13-2013, 12:57 AM   #1
brian8377
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Need advice...installing shower drain in basement

Hello everyone! I'm new to the forum, have been reading alot and am finally ready to tackle this shower drain, but I need some answers first!

Ok, we had previously installed a branch off the main sewer line under the basement floor to add a bathroom downstairs. I remember the basement floor varying in thickness from the standard 4 inches thick to probably down to only 2". We installed the new drain line to the bathroom location and roughed in for a toilet, lav, and tub in a straight line and in that order. We since changed our mind and wanted to install a shower instead, and therein lies the problem.

When we installed the original drain for the tub, we just put on a 90 and stubbed it straight up, we were going to put in an elevated tub with the trap and everything above the slab. But now that we're doing a shower, I have to knock out the floor again and put a P-trap in for the shower drain. I do remember though that the drain line at the tub wasn't terribly deep which I fear may cause a problem...

I'm trying to figure out what I need, and if this is going to work. So, my questions are:

1. For a 2" p-trap and shower drain fittings, what is the shallowest height that can be achieved? What I mean is, what would be the minimum height from the base of the shower drain (which would be sitting on top of the membrane) to the top of the horizontal straight section of the 2" p-trap? I can dig as deep as I need to under the slab, that's not a problem, what I'm worried about is if the drain line is deep enough to match up to the straight part of the p-trap...I have a low ceiling in the basement and don't want to have to raise the floor if I don't have to. I'm afraid that by the time I get the drain installed and the p-trap beneath it that the horizontal section of the p-trap will be lower than the existing drain line...

2. Are all p-traps and shower drains the same? If not, which type would I use for a shower install on concrete slab with tile floor?

Thank you so much for any and all help...!

Brian
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Unread 11-13-2013, 09:24 AM   #2
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Welcome, Brian.

1. I would recommend you get your P-trap and measure it and see how that fits with the depth of your horizontal drain line.

2. No, they're not all the same. If overall height is a consideration, I would recommend you think about using a direct bonded waterproofing membrane to construct your shower rather than building a traditional shower pan. For that you'd want to use a bonding flange type of drain and I'd recommend you use the one recommended by the waterproofing membrane you select.

You can find such systems made by Custom Building Products, USG, Laticrete, and Schluter, to name a few.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 08:33 PM   #3
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Thank you for the advice!
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Unread 11-13-2013, 11:18 PM   #4
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Ok, I bought a p-trap and it looks like I'll have enough height on the drain part so that shouldn't be an issue...however, I'm confused about the different typs of drains and which one I need for my application...??

I really like the square drains instead of round, and I went to the home improvement store tonite to look at them. They only had one in stock and I didn't like it, so I'll probably have to order one online. The one they had looked to me like a standard flange that's meant to be bolted to a sub-floor...but since I'll be putting this in a concrete slab I don't think that's the right one for me? I found a picture here on this site...

Name:  showerpan27.jpg
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But surely this isn't how mine will end up...so I'm confused about which drain type to use and how it seals to the liner so that water can't get under the liner and soak into the pre-slope mortar? Are there some pictures on the site I've missed that just deal with concrete slab installations?

I attached two pics of my current status...the first one is a general overview picture of my shower status...

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The second shows where the current drain is, and where I need to move it to...the drain will meet the existing line right about where the craftsman package is laying at a 45 degree angle...

Name:  shower_drain.jpg
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I'll probably be doing the jackhammering this weekend...I'm just so confused about this drain situation... any help is appreciated...thanks!

Brian
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Unread 11-14-2013, 08:09 AM   #5
wsume99
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Brian - As cx said in his last post the type of drain you use will depend on the method of waterproofing you plan to use in your shower.

So you need to tell us about how you plan to waterproof your shower.

The pic you posted looks like a clamping drain that is used with a traditional pvc liner.

I'd suggest looking at the following thread (especially post #3) in the library it will help you figure out some of these things.

Shower Construction Info (a collection of posts)
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Unread 11-14-2013, 12:38 PM   #6
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Actually, the type of waterproofing I was thinking of was listed in post #2 of that link you posted! Where it looks like the drain is set directly on the subfloor and the pre-slope comes down to it, then the PVC liner is put in and then the minimum of 1.25" of final mortar bed is put in.

Will that diagram be exactly the same for my situation, the only thing is that my concrete slab replaces the "subfloor" in this picture?

And if so, in the picture, it looks like the liner actually covers the drain base before putting the top part (clamping part?) onto the drain base...? This would be different than the picture I posted from the other page where the liner looked to be laying right on the subfloor...

Also, I don't see any weep holes in the picture of the drain assembly in post #3...does that type of drain not have them?

So to clarify, my plan was to use the same system as shown in post #2 there, the only exception being I have a concrete slab instead of the shown subfloor...

Thanks again for all the help...I just don't want ot do this with the wrong materials and cause more problems...

Brian
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Unread 11-15-2013, 08:38 AM   #7
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1 - Yes, construction is the same.

2 - Yes the liner must cover the drain base and then the clamping ring comes down on top of the liner. I can't tell exactly what is below the liner in the picture you attached. If the liner is sitting on top of the subfloor then it was installed incorrectly. It should be sitting on top of the preslope. Regardless, follow the diagram from the library and you'll be in good shape.

3 - This drain assembly does have weep holes. In that picture they are the eight (8) small round holes on the clamping ring that are between the slots. Here is a pic I found on the net that points them out. Note that the actual drain assembly may not look exactly like this photo.
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Unread 11-15-2013, 08:59 AM   #8
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Hi Brian,

If you're planning on having a glass door in that shower you'll need to re-do your knee wall ends so that the faces of them are parallel to each other and both are at 90 degrees to the inside and outside of your curb. Otherwise you won't be able to get a door to open correctly. Like this:

Name:  shower-tip-17.jpg
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Unread 11-15-2013, 10:15 AM   #9
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Ok, thanks for the replies! Ok, I'll start looking for that type of drain in a square finish that I like!

And about the shower door...I wasn't planning on having one...The shower head will go on the short full length wall and will be facing away from the opening...a curtain could be installed if one chose, but I don't think it's necessary. Trying to keep the cost down a bit and the shower door is just way too expensive...
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Unread 12-03-2013, 10:13 PM   #10
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Hey guys! Ok, so I finally got my drain moved and p-trap installed under the concrete floor, and now I'm moving on to getting ready for the pre-slope and liner. I bought the MarkE industries pre-pitch and quick-pitch and kirb-perfect systems to help me with the slope and curb since this is my first shower. Now, I understand the pre-slope goes in and then the liner, the problem I'm having now is my shower dimensions. Here is a drawing I did to show the rough opening...

Name:  shower.JPG
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Now, I have a roll of Oatey liner, which is 5 feet wide so I'm trying to figure out the best way to seam this with my shower configuration. I know that the liner is supposed to go up the walls 6" above the curb, so I notched the studs at the bottom to allow for the thickness of the liner (cut 1/8" to 1/4" deep, I hope that's not too much?).

What would you all recommend in the way of seaming this liner? My first thought would be to cut about a foot off the 5ft. width to make it 4ft. wide and lay the first piece in on the right side of the picture running from top to bottom (over the curb). If I go 1 foot up that right side wall, the 4 ft. wide liner will then cover the floor about a foot past the drain. Then I could seam the second piece there and continue it up the left wall and cut it to 12" up the wall as well. This keeps my seam away from the drain, the curb, and the corners where I'll have to fold the liner...can anyone tell me if this will be good?

Name:  shower2.JPG
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Also, where the liner lays against the notched stud, I read to cut 1/8" on the studs and the about 1/4" in the corners where the folds will be...but the liner material isn't an 1/8" thick, does the liner not need to be sandwiched tight between the cement board and the stud? Because as it is I believe there will be a gap in places...

Thanks for all the help!

Brian
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Unread 12-05-2013, 12:19 PM   #11
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Anyone?!
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Unread 12-05-2013, 12:29 PM   #12
Richard Tunison
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Hi Brian.

I think you are placing the seam in the optimum position. Good reasoning on your part.

No, the liner does not have to be "sandwiched" as you say. Most of us will use small dollops of loose thinset on the bottom of the boards against the liner and backing. That provides support on the backside and your mud bed makes the support on the front side so the board is locked in.
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Unread 12-06-2013, 12:48 AM   #13
brian8377
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Thank you for your reply! A spot of thinset between the liner and stud is a good idea I hadn't thought of...but do you still fasten the liner to the stud at the very top with a staple or something? I thought about just running a bead of sealant around the top edge of the liner, sealing it to the studs (and runners between the studs)...is that a bad idea?
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Unread 12-06-2013, 08:11 AM   #14
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I think running a bead around is just a waste of pookie. Staples or nails at the top are sufficient.
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Unread 12-06-2013, 08:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
A spot of thinset between the liner and stud is a good idea I hadn't thought of.
The dollop of thinset mortar Richard is suggesting goes between the backer board and the pan liner, Brian, to stabilize the bottom edge of the backerboard.

You attach the liner to the framing with nails or staples at least two inches above the level of the top of the curb. I see no advantage to using any sort of sealant there.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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