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Unread 04-15-2020, 05:15 PM   #1
Lou_MA
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Looking for help w/Hydroban board instructions

One of the install methods uses the Hydroban sealant (like a tube of caulking) at all board seams, smeared at least 1” past the joint.

I normally prep and tile the walls first, except for the bottom row, before I pack mud pans. Then I use the Hydroban seam tape (like kerdi band) and preformed Laticrete corners (like Schluter has) at the pan-to-wall junction.

Two questions:

1. Where the vertical corners meet the pan, I’m thinsetting the seam tape and corners onto the smeared sealant. Is this connection waterproof? It’s implied per the instructions that it is (in the sense it’s not explicitly prohibited) but would like verification.

2. The instructions for the seam tape call for 2” overlap and also spec that preformed corners be installed first, followed by horizontal banding, followed by vertical banding. Does the order really matter? Is that sequence required for a waterproof connection? Given how I work, my vertical seams are always done first.
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Unread 04-16-2020, 09:00 AM   #2
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Hey Lou,

I'm not sure about that, but Schluter doesn't care about sequence. It should work the same way with Laticrete since it's the same procedure.
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Unread 04-20-2020, 10:44 AM   #3
Sharon @ LATICRETE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou
1. Where the vertical corners meet the pan, I’m thinsetting the seam tape and corners onto the smeared sealant. Is this connection waterproof? It’s implied per the instructions that it is (in the sense it’s not explicitly prohibited) but would like verification.

If the caulk is LATICRETE, yes. Thin-set will bond fine.

2. The instructions for the seam tape call for 2” overlap and also spec that preformed corners be installed first, followed by horizontal banding, followed by vertical banding. Does the order really matter? Is that sequence required for a waterproof connection? Given how I work, my vertical seams are always done first.

The waterproofing should overlap from top to bottom in a single fashion.
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Unread 04-22-2020, 10:13 AM   #4
Lou_MA
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Thanks Sharon. Can you explain the technical reason why shingle overlap is required? Had testing been done to show the 2” overlap on the fleece-to-fleece connection isn’t waterproof on its own?

I’m also curious in part because Laticrete instructions for sheet membrane say that “the floor should be the last section installed”. So the order is preformed corners > horizontal banding > vertical banding > walls > floor.

Which means that the floor is *not* shingle-lapped with the band. Why is shingle overlap considered more important on walls than floors (which will see more water)?
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Unread 04-23-2020, 06:04 PM   #5
Sharon @ LATICRETE
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Hi Lou -
Shingling ensures continuous waterproofing for the walls.

For the floors, best practice is to butt-joint and the seam between the HYDRO BAN Sheet Membrane sections should be covered with HYDRO BAN Sheet Membrane Sealing Tape installed with the appropriate thin-set. Make sure that the HYDRO BAN Sheet Membrane Sealing Tape overlaps each HYDRO BAN Sheet Membrane section by a minimum of 2” (5 cm).

The floor should be the last section installed.
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Unread 04-24-2020, 04:01 AM   #6
Lou_MA
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Thanks again. Beating a dead horse, but has Laticrete done testing to show that the 2" overlap on it's own (without shingle lapping) is NOT sufficiently waterproof?

With Laticrete calling for the floor-to-wall banding to be done first, it will NEVER be shingle lapped with the floor field or butt-joint banding.
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Unread 04-24-2020, 10:26 AM   #7
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I agree, Lou. And the horse should never have died.

Surely Laticrete, a me-too entry into this field, knows that there is no possible way to install their membrane using a shingle-lap in the direction of flow method that includes installing the membrane on the floor last. Plenty of experience with similar products out there before Laticrete entered the game and surely they had access to all the potential problems with such systems before they created their product and installation method. The shingle-lap requirement also does not appear to apply to their recommendation to repair any damaged area with a patch of the same membrane, nor, as you suggest, to the actual installation of the floor portion of a shower receptor.

I admit I've never used nor even tested the product, but I'm concerned that they don't seem to have a method of installation for a shower that doesn't include the use of their pre-formed corners and they appear to be seriously concerned about overlap thickness build-up. The lack of flexibility in the use of the membrane would seem to me a serious limitation.

I don't find any thickness information for either the membrane nor the "sealing tape" on their website data sheet (DS-041.0-0315), so I don't know if their pre-formed corners and tape are thinner than the sheet membrane.

I think most of your dilemma might be in the wording of the installation instructions, but if it's from some actual limitation of the product, and if you can't sort it out to your satisfication, maybe selection of a different product is in order?
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Unread 04-28-2020, 09:12 AM   #8
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Hi Lou and CX - I've checked with our team on your questions and concerns.

If we're understanding you correctly you are asking about a vertical board seam over a pan, correct?

In this case yes, we recommend:

• To create a watertight system using HYDRO BAN Sheet Membrane Sealing Tape, Inside or Outside Corners and Collars start with the corners.
• Apply a suitable LATICRETE® polymer fortified thin-set mortar with a 1/4" x 3/16” (6 mm x 5 mm) V-notched trowel. Press the pre-formed corner firmly into the adhesive. Remove any trapped air and guarantee full adhesion to the material by spreading the adhesive from the inside out using a trowel or straightedge with rounded corners.
• Continue with thin-set along the floor-to-wall transition from the corner outward for the first strip of HYDRO BAN Sheet Membrane Sealing Tape. Overlap the corners by a minimum of 2” (50 mm).
• Lay the HYDRO BAN Sheet Membrane Sealing Tape and remove all air pockets and excess material as with the corner piece.
• Continue with these steps around the perimeter of the installation.
• Treat the vertical corners for the HYDRO BAN Sheet Membrane Sealing Tape next in the same manner as the floor-to-wall transitions were installed. Overlap the corners by a minimum of 2” (50 mm).

Whether you do the strips for the horizontal corners or vertical corners first doesn’t make that much difference. It’s really a matter of preference.

We do recommend installing the IS and OS corners first to minimize any water flow behind the corners coming down the vertical when possible.
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Unread 05-02-2020, 09:39 AM   #9
Tileworks
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Quote:
I'm concerned that they don't seem to have a method of installation for a shower that doesn't include the use of their pre-formed corners
The allow the use of their sealant or their liquid hydroban. In truth, they let you frankenstein your shower prep using various Latricrete products and warrant each method or combination thereof. Those of us who or who used to use Schluter fabric on the pan and corners and then Redgard the walls can do this using all Laticrete products with their blessing.

Quote:
they appear to be seriously concerned about overlap thickness build-up
It's because their sheet membrane is probably the thickest stuff on the market. I was using USG before they discontinued theirs, and it was very thin. I loved it, and I never bothered purchasing the corners but made my own. I tried this with Hydroban Sheet Membrane the other day on 2 showers and it was awful. I had to pull mud on all my walls because of how thick the overlaps were on my pan. Thanks to this nightmare, I'm probably going with liquid Hydroban pans from here on.

Regarding which overlaps what first, I don't think the other companies care, although shingling does make sense.
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