Question for installing tile after commercial carpet removal

[bazemk1979]

Hi got a question,

I'm bidding on a job where there was previosly commercial carpet installed with glue,havent checked out if its the tough commercial glue that is hard for removing or the one that gets cristalysed and its easy to be scraped off and such...

My bid will be different depending on the glue type.
Question is if its the hard type of glue that can pretty much be removed by grinding down the damn thing,is it ok to apply bonding agent instead of grinding it down (removing) all the glue?

Will be installing porcelain 12x24 and offcourse MP thinset.

[Brad Denny]

Hey Blashe,
Your not gonna find a thinset mortar manufacturer that's going to give blessing on not removing the glue. We use a Pearl Abrasive head on our buffer to remove glue. Does it get all the glue off? no, but enough to where a majority of the surface of the tile is going to be bonded to concrete. That's just kinda how we do it. I'd love to hear what others have to say.

[bazemk1979]

thanks Brad,I checked out the floor,got the scraper with me and its the glue that comes off easy.....but iven though the glue comes of easy it still leaves some darkish shinny coat on top of the concrette...

One way or the other I will have to grind it down.............if I get the job that is LOL....

Hail to the BEAST that will get his cherry broken for the first time!!!!

[Steve Taylor]

You will have to remove the old adhesive. The bond of the mortar to the floor will only be as good as the old adheisve, if you do not remove it. Also, some of these old carpet glues will react with the alkali in the mortar. This could further weaken the bond.

[Dave Gobis]

Here is what Brad is talking about.

[bazemk1979]

I will not invest in such an equipement to remove 1100 sqft of carpet glue on a comercial place.... On top of it all this is in Florida where everybody asks how cheaper can you go!!!!

My bosch and the concrette blade will be fine,will have the whole thing removed in a day with my 6HP ridgid vacuum....

That equipement costs good $7000-8000, I'm wondering can I iven bid the whole job that high due to the fact this is freaking Florida..... let alone pay that much money for equipement like that that I'm not sure when I will be needing next time....

[bazemk1979]

@Steve

Yes Steve I understand what you saying,since its the glue that is crystalised and coming off easy I have to remove it and scarify the concrete.

But if it was that tough strong old fashion carpet glue,I would of more lean onto applying bonding agent on top of it,let it cure by factory specs and then on I can prep the floor and start installing some porcelaine....

Sadly enough this is not the old fashion strong carpet glue,so I have to remove it by scarifying the whole floor.

[Brad Denny]

Blashe,

It might be worth looking into a half day rental for something a little bigger so you can get further along on the install the first day, if it's a typical commercial job (behind when you get there ). You could 'prolly get the floor prepped, laid out, and cut in the first day if you grid and got plenty of help.

[bazemk1979]

Brad I'm lone wolf,I do the job by my self since I cannot afford to hire someone and for sometime and then tell him there isn't any work at the moment...

I mean I did 700 sqft of laminate in and all the shoe molding around it in 3 days and had to stop so the HO can have the kitchen cabinets delivered t and the old ones ripped out....

Been waithing for almost 3 weeks and in meantime bidding on some jobs a side.If I had a helper I had to explain him that there is no work,I work alone and I work in peace,if things get better well then I might start thinking bigger,till then keeping it simple.

It will be worth while for scarifying the whole floor,prepping high and low spots and laying out the floor in 2 days,charged for it so dont mind wasting 2 days on it.Lets see if I get the job.

EDIT: I paid for the Bosch 9" grinder,Bosch shroud,grinding cup wheel and a Bosch tool bag all for $350,I got a really good deal trough Amazon considering how much prices are now on this Combo.Got it cheaper but intend to use it full force,not renting other stuff for puney 1100 sqft....

[Steve Taylor]

Blashe,
I would still be concerned bonding directly to even very hard carpet adheisve. The glue will still be weaker than cement and the point of potential failure. We see tile sent to us from job failures from time to time that came up and has hard carpet glue on the bottom side of the mortar. We hate to tell the customer that the floor was not prepared well.

In this case it appears that you are going to grind the adhesive off the floor. We wish that was the case everytime.

[Brad Denny]

The visual once given to me, if i can explain it...

Take a paper towel and lay it flat onna table. It represents the glue. Place hand palm down fingers spread on top of the towel. It represents the thinset mortar. While keeping pressure downward on the towel, slowly begin to make a fist, kinda like grasping a baseball. The places where there are voids between the towel and the table are similar to what would happen between the glue/thinset/tile when the tenacious grip of curing thinset latches on to the weakly bonded glue.

That could be all wrong, but that's how my brain processes it.
I think a Custom's rep tole me that...

[bazemk1979]

@ Steve

I remember some time around 7 years a go we had good 4.000 sqft kitchen dining area with commercial carpet to remove and install 18x18 porcelain.

I remember that we had to soak the whole kitchen dining area with water to soften up the carpet,if I'm not mistaking we let the water hose wet the whole big room.

We left it for 24hrs to soak in and soften up the carpet and we had to rent some MK machine for removing carpet and it did the job well,while the same MK failed on removing sound proof barrier 4-5 months a go and we eneded up removing it with hex chissel and add on a special chissel blade.

Back to topic,after the carpet was removed,the concrette was dry and the glue was dry,so my boss saw how hard it is to remove the glue which in all due respect was a monster....

He brought like 4-5 gallons of Bonding agent from Golf tile I think not sure,was sort of bluish look like liquid,like light bluish and as far as I remember I think he checked with the manufacturer specs if its ok to apply the Bonding agent on top of glue before installing the tile with MP thinset.

As far as I know he had the GO sign and we did the job,its been 7 years every since and a friend of mine actually work there as a janitor.

I asked him how does the tile holds up and if they have any problems with it,he said no probs at all,hes been working there for 4 years....

That bonding agent must of done its job for sure.

None the less,I will remove the glue on this job by grinding down with 7" grinder and dustless shroud.

[Hammy]

None the less,I will remove the glue on this job by grinding down with 7" grinder and dustless shroud.
__________________
Blashe

1000 sq ft with a 7" grinder.................... better man than me.


Hammy