Relocating A Toilet (how Many 90deg Turns Allowed)

[Vinnie Palmer]

Hi

Per CX's advice, I am starting a new thread hoping to get the experts' advise to relocate a toilet in my bathroom that I have been remodeling (for many months now !).
Information : Upstairs bath, 2x10 joists 16oc, 5/8 plywood, 3in plastic ABS pipe (I think-haven't open the floor yet), will be tiled after toilet is relocated. Toilet now sits facing the same direction with the 2x10 joists so it has two 90 degree (one from the flange and one to drop into the wall). (please see drawing in TOI BEFORE.doc file)


I want to move it to the corner sitting perpendicular to the joists. Please enlighten me. My search showed me (on this forum too, thanks) that I could bore holes through joists using the 1/3 rule. So I will have to drill 3.5 in ( a bit bigger than 1/3 but may be OK ?) holes through 3 joists to run the new pipe through. The main fear I have is the pipe will have to go through an additional 90 degree elbow (one under the flange, one new turn, and the original 90 dropping down into the wall. Are these too many turn that may cause nasty clogging problem. (please see drawing in TOI AFTER.doc file)

I nearly committed some deadly mistakes if not for the info I learned here.
Any advise on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Mike2]

Hi Vinnie.

I think you need to go back to the drawing board. Re. the 90 deg. bend, even if you put in a long sweep 90 my code at least requires a cleanout for every 130 deg. of run change. Additionally I would not be drilling a 3.5" hole even through the dead center of a 2X10 joist, especially since you have that tub near by. I might reconsider that last part if I could put in a load bearing wall or beam below this floor across the center portion of the joist span and double up on the joists (sisters). But you're still left with the plumbing prob.

Just my opinion mind you.

[Vinnie Palmer]

Thanks for your opinion, Mike. Very reasonable.

I wasn't aware of the cleanout requirement. And the load bearing wall situation really make me go back to the drawing board. How about raising the floor for that section by 5-6 inches by laying 2x5 across the joists to make room for the pipe and closet elbow, then cover with plywood. Basically creating a new floor to house the elbow and flange (pls see new sketch TOILET RAISED FLOOR.doc). This way, the pipe can go straight and the joist are not cut. I will not have the pipe sits on the joists but will have some room (maybe 1/2in space) and tie the pipe to the 2x6 joists some how. If I remember correctly, reading LonnyThe Pumber said that he didn't lie the idea of pipe sitting on wood.

The positives are to avoid what you mentioned and make it look like a step to get inot the tub. The potential negatives are, it may look odd and possible trip hazard at the middle of the night.

Thanks for any additional ideas.

[cx]

Welcome, Vinny. Now all I gotta do is remember where that other post is so's I can disappear it.

What Mike said.

No way you coulda run that pipe through three joists and still been far enough from one edge or the other of them joists even if the hole had been small enough, which it weren't. Nope, bad plan.

I don't see any real problem with the raised floor idea, aside from the tripping in the middle of he night thingee. I'd try to make the step finish out at about 7 inches rise so's it's more like a normal stair step if I could. There are lots and lots of little lites made just for stairs that you could fit into it as a feature and eliminate the tripping hazard to a large extent.

Not sure what Lonny has against drain pipes supported on the framing. Maybe he was just grouchy that day. Maybe it's for noise control. Dunno. I frequently run pipes of various kinds through framing openings of various kinds and when everything is done I squirt all the holes and where I shim them away from close framing members with a little of that expanding foam stuff. Keeps everything from moving about and prolly dampens the noise a bit. Don't know if Lonny approves of that on accounta he ain't never seen me do it. Hell, prolly violates some code or another.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[doitright]

Hi CX

I've had service calls where plastic pipe was touching framing members (no insulation or foam), and expansion & contraction from hot water running made them creak/pop in the walls. It's a bear to identify and repair. Fortunetly we came through for the client.

PS - It wasn't our installation.

[cx]

Yep, I've heard of that. With the drain line it would only be the vibration type noise, I would think. I'm guessing that's what Lonny's not like'n. But who knows? He is a lawyer, eh?

[LonnythePlumber]

I only mean to recognize the noise factor. Certainly John K.'s comment about trap arms rubbing on the wood from the expansion of pipe is a major reoccuring problem. Sounds like water leaking.
A bigger concern is that plastic pipe echos the sound of drain water and people in the living room can hear when people upstairs or in the next room are flushing. There is a movement back to cast iron. Tyler cast iron now has a new line of quieter pipe.
Where is the vent for the toilet trap arm? You say you have a 90 turning to the vertical at the wall?

[Vinnie Palmer]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for all of the ideas. I really like the expanding foam; I used it librally to cushion the copper pipe through the studs instead of the platic thingee they used originally.

I scrapped the plan of drilling the joists and will make better plan for the raised floor. I will post some pix later.

To Lonny's question, the vent is located at the top left corner of the room. I haven't open the plywood around this area yet 'cause I am ready to replace the toilet. I will do more investigation and report later.

Thanks