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Unread 06-24-2002, 01:49 PM   #1
madmax
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Does anyone use Hardibacker? Have you had any problems with it?

I have a few jobs where hardibacker is speced and I haven't had any failures but in the last couple of weeks I have noticed something that has me worried. We buy the boards by the pallet and we have had a few boards that seem to be "delaminating". Sometimes the boards split and come apart in layers..

Has anyone seen this?
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Unread 06-24-2002, 02:21 PM   #2
Rob Z
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Max

I haven't ever used Hardi before, but I have heard of that problem from more than one person.
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Unread 06-24-2002, 02:35 PM   #3
Sonnie Layne
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I use it.

Have never seen what you're describing, "the boards splitting and coming apart in layers". I have seen some separation if I'm nailing within 1/2" of the edge. The only other CBUs I've used would turn to dust in the same situation. Don't make it right, tho. You might consider dropping them a query.
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Unread 06-24-2002, 05:19 PM   #4
Bud Cline
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Sonnie,

Your not using Perma Base or Utilicrete then.


Yes I have heard of the "lam separation" also. Don't use Hardi, don't really want to. There are other issues in my thinking with the Hardi product.
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Unread 06-24-2002, 06:44 PM   #5
Dog paws
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I had three jobs in a row, where the tile cracked every 3' from wall to wall with 1/4" hardibacker. When we tore up the floors the hardi came up in two clean layers 1/8" each. The stuff delaminating into two seperate sheets.
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Unread 06-24-2002, 07:31 PM   #6
Tex Tile
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I use 1/4 quite often, never really had a problem with it delaminating or anything else. The couple of times I did think something was wrong with it I was wrong. Both times it was a subfloor issue. As for it delaminating when pulling it up, I have seen that before, but I never really considered it to be an issue. I kind of expect it.
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Unread 06-24-2002, 08:20 PM   #7
Tom
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Hardibacker will come apart in clean layers when a purposeful attempt is made using considerable force. I've never seen or heard of it coming apart unintentionally. Any backer will fall apart if it is dropped on its corner. On a job with 1/2" hardi on a wall, when a customer wanted to change the position of a fully set decorative accent tile(pre-grout), I cut around it with a carbide tip knife and removed a 1/16" layer of hardi cleanly with the tile and just backbuttered the replacement. It will never come off. If you feel nervous about a product and have a choice, peace of mind can be reason enough not to use it. As mentioned, Perma base is an excellent product, as I'm sure are many others.
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Unread 06-25-2002, 09:50 PM   #8
Sonnie Layne
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Bud... you're right, I've never used Utilicrete or Permabase.

I've never used 1/4" anything.

And I think Tom's right, when tearing out, I use my favorite bar, which is pretty thin on the long end. I would venture to guess that I could probably chisel my way along the grain and get it to separate. Wonder boards kinda cool, too. You hit it with a nail bar and it turns to crumbs.

Anyway, Hardiboard has done me right in more ways than one. Some day I'll try the UCrete or P'base.
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Unread 06-28-2002, 08:25 PM   #9
LDavis
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I've installed 1,000's of sf of 1/4" hardibacker on floors. Never had a single failure related to the hardi. I see alot of failures over hardibacker related to unapproved, and improper installation procedures. If the product is used within the manufacturers specifications and limitations, it will reliably do the job.

In this area, most "installers" nail it directly to the subfloor, no thinset leveling bed. Also see mastic used to "laminate" the hardi to the subfloor. Also see installations with no space between boards, more than 2 corners meeting, and no tape/thinset at board seams.

Install it properly, over a subfloor that meets minimum structural standards, and there will be no problems. Dogpaws, if you have cracked tiles every 3 feet on three jobs in a row, find someone that knows how to read and follow installation instructions, and/or don't install on substandard subfloors.
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Unread 06-28-2002, 08:34 PM   #10
Rob Z
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Glad to see you're back with us.

I thought of you the other day when I was buying beer. I saw Lone Star in the "Premium" section. $5 a six pack! Ridiculous!
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Unread 06-28-2002, 09:53 PM   #11
Dog paws
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Okay, for the sake of argument. I have personally installed Hardi with no problems. My company was going thru pallets of the stuff for quite some time. The crew that was on these particular jobs were some of the best installers I've seen. They also went by the book.
Then we ran into a batch that caused major problems. We did not have to use force to pry the boards apart. Once we broke loose one tile, we could lift the rest of the floor up like opening an envelope. The board opened up in two clean sheets.
After loosing a good crew, pissing off three good customers, and having some of my other crews say "We told you so" I've gone back to Utilicrete and Ditra.
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Unread 06-28-2002, 10:05 PM   #12
tileguytodd
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Why did you lose the crew? (none of my buisiness of course,just curious) I do like to pick the brains of upper management
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Unread 06-28-2002, 10:33 PM   #13
Dog paws
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They were stand up guys that fixed any problems at no charge. Even if it wasn't there fault.
They were convinced that I was using Hardi to cut cost and therefore cutting quality. I couldn't convince them any different. I was using the stuff cause I had found it easier to work with than cement board.
Long story short - they bolted.
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Unread 06-28-2002, 10:55 PM   #14
tileguytodd
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I can see where it could happen ( iheard a couple of guys in 1 of our crews talking like that)And at least 1 crew a few years ago did the same thing to the shop i work out of.Sometimes its a real juggling act for the shop to find balance between top quality materials and competitive pricing.At times as an installer, I just say No.I have to back it so i retain some options.It doesnt happen often,but it happens.Some of the younger guys dont have the experiance and just go with the way the shop sells it.(even if nobody looked at the job (scary!!!!)
Call backs are a part of the job,I always get a kick outa the guys that say "I never get callbacks"Either they are lyin , or not workin.We all get them on occassion,too many variables.If your crew took good care of those situations ,get them back!! whatever it takes get them back.They will only make your buisiness better.Even after they left you talk well of them,which says much for you.I am sure if aproached in the right way they would be receptive.Do unto them as you would have them do unto you.

Wilsonnnnnnnnnnnn come back wilsonnnnn!!!!!!!!!!
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Unread 06-29-2002, 08:53 AM   #15
Bud Cline
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Makes me all misty eyed, I love emotional moments, especially on the Internet.





I had a callback once back in the late seventies.
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