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Unread 07-28-2010, 01:10 PM   #1
andy911
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Decoupling membranes for mosaic?

I'm planning to lay a 5/8" carrera marble mosaic on the floor - Ditra obviously is not appropriate in this case.

I don't think Nobleseal is available up here (Toronto) - what other membrane options are there?

Thanks!
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Unread 07-28-2010, 01:13 PM   #2
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Wood or concrete floor?
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Unread 07-28-2010, 01:41 PM   #3
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Sorry - wood floor. Also, this is for the bathroom floor (ie. not a shower stall etc).

Thanks!
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Unread 07-28-2010, 02:30 PM   #4
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why not ditra?

why would ditra not work under stone?
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Unread 07-28-2010, 02:43 PM   #5
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Pete,

Ditra has a 2"x2" tile size minimum
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Unread 07-28-2010, 04:08 PM   #6
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Yep, no Ditra on mosaics..I like sheet mem. for crack isolation..especially Noble Poroducts but if they are not available Laticrete makes some fine liquid applied membranes.
Hydro ban by Laticrete would be a good choice over a tile appropriate subfloor. ( cement backerboard ect.).
Some Links:
http://www.laticrete.com/distributor...rproofing.aspx
http://www.laticrete.com/distributor...upression.aspx

There are a number of other crack isolation products available but none that I'm as familiar with or as comfortable using as the Laticrete products.
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Unread 07-28-2010, 04:35 PM   #7
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Andy, Noble Company does have an online store, so they may be willing to ship to Canada. (The company is based in Michigan, I believe.) I ordered a seven-foot long section of NobleSeal TS and a gallon bucket of NobleBond EXT, and they only charged me $5 to ship the entire order.
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Unread 07-29-2010, 06:20 AM   #8
andy911
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Thanks. I would prefer not to have to ship since shipping across the border (especially for a bulky item) is usually quite expensive.

I'll look into the laticrete product more - my preference would be an actual membrane rather than a liquid though.

It sounds like perhaps Kerdi and Noble are the only two products that offer some amount of subfloor decoupling?

Thanks!
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Unread 07-29-2010, 06:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy911
It sounds like perhaps Kerdi and Noble are the only two products that offer some amount of subfloor decoupling?
Noble - yes

Kerdi - not so much
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Unread 07-30-2010, 02:48 PM   #10
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Does deflection calc depend on tile size?

For example if I want to install 5/8" marble mosaic and I use a flexible grout and Nobleseal membrane, how does that affect the max. deflection calculation?

Thanks!
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Unread 07-30-2010, 03:43 PM   #11
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No, and flexible grout is sort of a misnomer...true grout is primarily cement, which isn't very flexible. The modifiers can handle only a minor amount. Also, stone, because it has more natural imperfections, regardless of the size, still needs a thicker subfloor, and a stiffer floor structure in order to survive reliably.
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Unread 07-30-2010, 07:04 PM   #12
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Darn :-)

My joists are old-style 2x8's (ie. pretty much true 2" x 7.25) , 11' span 16" OC. The Deflecto-meter gives L/385. If I sister the joists up to 3.5" its up to L/673 - wondering if the membrane and the small tile size would give me some latitude.

I suppose I could sister the joists with metal plates instead. Or if I hang some perpendicular framing members would I be okay?

Thanks
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Unread 07-30-2010, 08:00 PM   #13
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Perpendicular running under/across them joists? Or just adding blocking between the joists?

The latter ain't gonna do a dang thing for you.
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Unread 07-30-2010, 09:16 PM   #14
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Welcome, Andy.

It'll help if you'll ask all your project questions on a single thread so folks can see the history and what's been previously asked and answered. We can change the title to something more generic any time you'd like to suggest one.

The small mosaic tiles are working against you, rather than being of any advantage in dealing with subfloor deflection. Basically just a layer of grout with some little stones embedded in it, eh?

If you can determine the specie and grade of those joists, and are willing to sister with some good Doug Fir or equivalent, you may find your joist structure can meet specs for your stone floor.

Still hafta add a second layer of plywood subflooring, of course.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 07-30-2010, 09:25 PM   #15
andy911
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Thanks CX. Sorry about cluttering up the forum.

I'm thinking if I sister each joist with a 2x6 on both side, recessed down enough to put down the first 3/4" ply (or even a 1" ply) on them in between the existing 2x8s, that would have to give me enough strength, and also reduce my final floor height. on top I would do a 1/2" ply (or even 3/4" if I can get away with it) plus the nobleseal membrane.

How can I calculate if that will work?

Thanks,

Andy K.
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