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Unread 07-03-2007, 08:34 AM   #1
bryanzim
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Bryan Neo-Angle Glass Block Kerdi Shower

Hello, I am trying to build a glass block neo-angle shower. I have tried the pan liner route and have been a bit disappointed so far. I have been looking at the Kerdi system but have a couple of questions.

1. What is the proper way to cut the membrane around the 135 degree angle of the neo angle curb so that the material does not bunch and is water tight?
2. Is the Kerdi curb dense enough to support glass block?
3. Can two kerdi curbs be put side by side one cut down to get more thicknesses or do they come in wdier thicknesses?

Any help is appreciated. The wife is on me to get this done.

Laslty, If I desire to hire someone, does anybody know any installers in or around the 20119 area code.

Sincerely,
Bryan Zimmerman
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Unread 07-03-2007, 09:25 AM   #2
Tim_4_Tile
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I don't know much about the kerdi curb, but it's not that hard to make a curb out of fat mud and then kerdi it.

If you are on concrete slab, you'd want to start with a row of bricks; if on plywood, you'd start with regular (not pressure treated) 2X4 lumber wrapped in roofing paper and metal lath. This gets coverd with fat mud, made plumb and smooth. (This is all covered in the "liberry.") I did it -- It was my first time working with mud and I got good results without much stress, so don't be intimidated.

Then wrap with kerdi. The kerdi will be much easier to get around your neo design without the folds that a traditional liner would require.

You'll have a curb strong enough for glass block, and you can make it whatever width you need to produce a nice tile layout. I made mine quite wide, and it's worked out fine.

You can see my curved curb and glass block construction here:

http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=38610

I placed my glass block directly on the kerdi, then tiled afterward, bringing the tile up to the glass block. Others tile the curb first and put glass block on top of that. It certainly worked fine for me, but maybe some pros will chime in as to why one way is better than the other.

Good luck!
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Unread 01-21-2008, 06:00 AM   #3
bryanzim
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Kerdi Neo-Angle Application

I am getting ready to embark on a neo angle glass block shower. I have tried the PVC pan liner method and come up with unsatisfactory results.

I have done a lot of research and the Kerdi Shower method looks like a good choice. My concern is how to apply the Kerdi at the neo angle curb sections both inside and outside to avoid leaking. I have the Kerdi Shower Book and the Tile your World book but it is still unclear to me.

Does anyone have a instruction or pictures showing the proper application of Kerdi on a Neo angle curb?

Thanks,
Bryan Z.
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Unread 01-21-2008, 08:46 AM   #4
ceramictec
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Lightbulb

in this video from Schluter you will see the installer do a corner curb, I would go the same route and cut pieces to fit your pan but layer the way he did.

Schluter - Kerdi Install Video

from 2:15 to 3:55 he shows you how do do a curb, I would go the same route and cut your pieces to fit the corner angles where needed.
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Unread 01-21-2008, 09:12 AM   #5
Splinter
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The problem is the 45 degree angle on the neo-angle curb... You dont get complete overlaps easily, and Herr Schluter isnt offering 45 degree corners yet.

The way I do them is by running a section of kerdi along the inside VERTICAL wall of the curb, and extending onto the shower floor and top of curb. When the membrane is sliced at the corners to lay flat, you wind up with a pie shaped overlap on the shower floor, and pie shaped opening on the top side of the curb. A carefully, well placed slice on the floor side will leave the "leak-free pinhole" typical of the old style 90 degree corners, but not enough overlap to please anyone. By carefully cutting the sheet that covers the entire floor to fit tight into the neo-corners, you get a complete overlap, and no leaks.

Another piece run on the outside of the curb will overlap itself at the corners when folded over the top of the curb, covering the open pie shapes left earlier.
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Unread 01-21-2008, 06:27 PM   #6
bryanzim
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Thank you both for responding. I have watched the video and read about the neo-angle installation. What bothers me is the pinholes left at the bottom and top of the inside corners. What is to say these won't leak over time? It just bugs be to leave any kind of hole which is why I went with a liner to begin with.

I have contacted Schulter and they say that they do not have an instruction for neo-angle corners. Also they must have 2" overlap everywhere. This is why they designed the Kerdi-Kereck-F inside and outside corners for every 90 degree corner and curb to wall.

Is there any procedure to guarantee this 2" overlap at the 135 degree inside neo angle? This seems to be a common problem for liners as well as Kerdi and why has no one in the market come up with a good solution? Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Bryan Z.
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Unread 01-21-2008, 08:19 PM   #7
Mike2
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Bryan, if you don't trust those pinholes, put a dab of Kerdi-Fix over them.

I hope you have John's Kerdi eBook and if you do, turn to page 53 for a discussion with pictures on leak-free pinholes in Kerdi corners. John even demonstrates how you can prove to yourself that they will not leak.

Also turn to page 55 for discussion with more pictures on how to apply the membrane to a neo-angle base. I see nothing wrong with Alex's method described above. On page 55 however, John demonstrates yet another way to skin that cat.

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Unread 01-21-2008, 09:17 PM   #8
Splinter
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Heh, I forgot to mention that I smear a small dot of caulk on those pinholes too... Although there are 4 or 5 showers out there that I did early on and never did the corner goo smear.. So far no problem-o....
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Unread 09-16-2008, 05:01 PM   #9
bryanzim
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Kerdi over mortar bed with liner

I just intsllaed a noble company PVC pan liner with a mortar preslope and inside mortar tilebed and also mortared curbs. I am pretty sure that it has no leaks since I water tested it for 72 hours before doing the inside mortar and curbs.

Being the paranoid person that I am, has anyone also installed kerdi over top the mortared tile bed and curbs as a double protection against leaks before installing the tile?

Thanks,
Bryan
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Unread 09-16-2008, 06:30 PM   #10
Mike2
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Never heard of such a thing, Bryan, but I'm sure somebody out there has tried it. Don't know how they'd make a watertight connection to the drain, however.


Last edited by Mike2; 09-16-2008 at 07:00 PM.
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Unread 09-16-2008, 06:49 PM   #11
ceramictec
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Quote:
Don't know how they'd make a watertight connection to the drain,
good observation Mike.
without using the Kerdi drain you would have to cut the Kerdi close to the clamping drain top. if a leak happened it would fill the mudbed with water between the Kerdi and Noble liner and create a mold sandwich for sure.
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Unread 09-16-2008, 07:06 PM   #12
cx
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This the "neo-angle" and glass block shower you were fixin' to build last year, Bryan, or a new project?

I can't imagine any advantage to trying to install Kerdi over a traditional mud and liner pan. And I can think of some disadvantages, like when the water finds a way down into the mud bed (see Mike2's question), how would it ever, ever evaporate back out?

Not a good eye-dee to my thinking.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-17-2008, 06:32 AM   #13
bryanzim
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Thank you for the responses.

CX - Yes you have a very good memory. This is the same shower that I started last year but I'm slow and just got around to actually doing it again.

Based on responses, I think I will abandon the Kerdi route.

I would like to perform another leak test and see what happens. What is the opionion on doing a leak test on a mortar bed above liner?

Thanks,
Bryan
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Unread 09-17-2008, 07:54 AM   #14
cx
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No memory here, Bryan, I just looked for more threads under your user name and came up with a couple more on a shower. We like to keep all the questions for a project on a single thread so folks who want to help can see the history and what's been previously axed and answered. I've combined all your threads here, so please bookmark this one and use it for all your questions until you finish.

You can do another leak test if you like, but it'll take a bit longer. You'll need to allow time for the mortar bed to completely saturate before you start your measurement or you'll appear to be losing water initially. Once it's all saturated your water level should remain constant as it did in the first test.

Take a while for it to dry, too.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-15-2008, 05:07 AM   #15
bryanzim
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Thank you for the advice. I performed new leak tests and had no leaks. I now have the cement board(Hardibacker) walls up.

My next question has to do with glass block. I would like to tile both the curb and walls before putting up the glass block. Does anyone have any experience with laying glass block against a tiled wall and tiled curb?

I have two glass block walls held on two sides which are 32" and 22" in length. I was thinking of using the Pittsburgh corning Mortar II system and their recomendation was the following:

On curb:

1. Coat curb with weld-bond.
2. anchor a strap to the curb
3. lay block and motar.

My problem here is that I don't want to penetrate the liner that I spent such a long time putting in with the anchor strap. Does one really need to penetrate the curb since it is already anchored to the floor? Will the block slide off without this extra anchor?

On Wall:

1. Use expansion stips
2. Anchor straps every second row
3. No mortar between block and tile
4. Caulk edge between block and tile when done.

Any comments?

As another suggestion, Pittsburg suggested the ProVantage II system which is a silicone only system which doesn't require penetrating the curb.

I'm looking forward to getting this job done and look forward to any responses.

Thanks,
Bryan Z.
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