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Unread 05-14-2021, 09:26 PM   #61
xkse
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Dan et al:

Now that the shower is framed and I'm going with the "thin bed" (1 mud bed to the linear drain, waterproof membrane over top), should I install the cbu first and embed it in the mud, or do the mud bed then cbu?

I assume the former, since putting in the cbu after would have similar issues to the sloped tile; the concrete board would have to be cut at the slope of the mud bed?

Also, I bought Mapei 4:1 mix but judging from other posts, 5:1 ratio may be preferred? For my first mud bed, will the 4:1 be ok or should I add sand?

Jim:

Thanks for the idea...however I finished framing everything a few weeks ago. The wood curb is installed as well (not shown).
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Unread 05-14-2021, 09:42 PM   #62
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If you're using something like Kerdi (not a liquid applied membrane), install the cbu on the walls, then make the mudbed. Well, actually there are two classes of cbu, 'normal' and fiber-cement. A fiber-cement board cannot be embedded in a conventional shower, but it doesn't matter with a sheet membrane since it stays dry. The fiber in fiber-cement board is cellulose (i.e., wood fibers), and while it makes the board stiffer, and cement is not waterproof, having it sit in a potentially always damp mix does not come out well...
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Unread 05-15-2021, 06:08 PM   #63
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I'm using Noble ValueSeal membrane (similar to Kerdi) with Durock cement board. I will install the cement board first, tape all seams (alkali resistant), build the mud bed.

For a first time shower builder like me, couple of questions:
  1. ValueSeal says to use a latex modified thinset. I've seen a lot of brands posted on the forum. In addition to the regular Lowes and HD, I have stores near me that supply laticrete, kerdi and mapei. Any preferences?
  2. Do I apply the same thinset used to bond the ValueSeal on the seams of the cement board tape?
  3. I bought Mapei 4:1 mud mix, but I've seen preferences of 5:1 on this site. Should I return it? Add sand? Use a specific amount of water and use it as is?
  4. I'm using 12x24 tile for the walls and 2" mosaic tile on the floor; any specific type of leveling clips I should use on the wall? Can I use the same thinset used to bond the ValueSeal to the cbu for the tile?

Thanks!
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Unread 05-15-2021, 06:28 PM   #64
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2. Nick, do not fill and tape the CBU seams that will be covered with the ValueSeal. The ValueSeal, properly installed, will treat those seams much better than will the mesh tape and the ValueSeal will install much easier without the "speed bumps." Most especially don't treat any inside corners before installing the membrane.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 05-15-2021, 07:12 PM   #65
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Ah interesting. So the ValueSeal will act to tie the boards together and prevent any movement? Basically just screw it into the studs. Should I leave a gap between the boards and fill the screw holes?

Other questions still active =)
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Unread 05-15-2021, 08:45 PM   #66
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No, do not fill screw holes, and follow the instructions on the cbu about any seam gaps. The membrane will seal those penetrations and seams while adding the needed support to help it emulate a solid cemented wall.

Have you read the installation instructions for the membrane? Follow those instructions...

Tape on seams is required when using a liquid applied waterproofing since it doesn't have any structure to it to bond the seams together.

The sheet membrane is stronger than the mesh tape and does a fine job of consolidating the panels together.
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Unread 05-15-2021, 09:38 PM   #67
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Makes sense. I read these instructions and didn’t see anything related to the cbu seams http://noblecompany.com/storage/docs...structions.pdf
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Unread 05-18-2021, 08:33 AM   #68
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Couple questions that may have gotten missed:
  1. ValueSeal says to use a latex modified thinset to bond the membrane. I've seen a lot of brands posted on the forum. In addition to the regular Lowes and HD, I have stores near me that supply laticrete, kerdi and mapei. Any preferences?
  2. For the large format tile, 12x24, should I look for 1/8 or 3/16 leveling clips system?
  3. Mapei 4:1 mud is what I have, but judging from comments on this site it may not be ideal. Can I use as is or should i modify it?
  4. Can I use the same modified thin set to bond the ValueSeal to set the tile?
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Unread 05-18-2021, 08:47 AM   #69
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1. Use whatever's convenient to you that meets ANSI A118.4 specifications. That number will be on the bag.

2. Depends upon what spacing you intend to use. The tile manufacturer will commonly have a recommendation. The industry standard is for a grout joint that is three times the difference in size between the largest and smallest tiles in your layout.

These are rectified tiles?

3. If you're gonna use it, use it per the manufacturer's instructions.

4. Yes. If your substrate is flat and your tiles are flat, that should work. If not, you may need to switch to a LHT mortar and a larger trowel notch.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 05-18-2021, 01:37 PM   #70
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Yeah, I guess I was looking for some opinions and recommendations of what other have used since this is my first time.
  1. Looking online, CBP Versabond, Laticrete 253 gold, Mapei ultra flex 2 are options.
  2. i reached out to the manufacturer as there was nothing on their website (Anatolia La Marca 12x24 rectified tiles). I would guess either 1/8 or 3/16 spacers?
  3. Ok
  4. yeah, with the large tile maybe something like Large Tile Mortar Laticrete 4xlt, Laticrete lht, ultra flex lft

Thanks for your help
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Unread 05-18-2021, 04:12 PM   #71
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Save yourself some dinero, Nick, and go to Homer's and get some Versabond. It'll work for all your bathroom applications.

If you find you must have a LHT mortar, there is an LHT version of Versabond, too.

Save the "high performance" mortars for an application for which it might have some benefit beyond the basic A118.4 mortars.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 05-18-2021, 06:48 PM   #72
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Thanks! Exactly what I was looking for.

For the spacers, it seems that the LASH system is designed for a 1/16" grout line, which is small for the tile size. It says you can add normal spacers to it but that seems a bit cumbersome.

What do you recommend for the tile leveling systems for the larger format tile, considering I'll use these once or twice?
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Unread 05-20-2021, 08:23 AM   #73
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I used the Spin Doctor system, Nick, and really liked it. First time using such a system though, so nothing to compare it to. Yes, a bit spendy, but was worth it to me.
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Unread 05-20-2021, 08:31 AM   #74
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I also like the spin doctor but only system I have used. I like that I only need one hand to operate and no extra tool to lose track of.
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Unread 05-23-2021, 11:07 AM   #75
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Ok, will look into Spin Doctor.

Local tile supplier carries Rubi Delta so will look into that too.
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