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Unread 09-11-2021, 09:05 AM   #31
Skivvt
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Thanks,
So i would be able to span 3 joists but not stagger, isn’t that an issue or does it matter since I will be adding the 1/2 perpendicular to it?
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Unread 09-11-2021, 09:11 AM   #32
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The depth into the dimension wood framing for screw fasteners is originally based upon the thickness of the wood member and was to be half the thickness. Thus, for nominal 2x material, the minimum depth was determined to be 3/4ths of an inch. You might axe why that was the determination. I have no real idea, but it seems reasonable. Well, OK, it only seems reasonable because it's been that way all my life.

I was not at that meeting (I was really, really young back then), but I also believe the minimum depth was to be measured along the threaded shaft of the screw and would not include the tapered tip. That would make Dan's point well taken. A full inch with most construction screw tip types would be a good choice, seems to me. Just as with the requirement for the screw to completely penetrate through the bottom layer when fastening to engineered wood sheet goods in order that the full diameter threaded portion contacts the full thickness of the wood.

All that to say you should be sure your screw penetration is adequate, but always with consideration of hitting any pipes or wires that may be passing through the member just below the minimum required depth.

[Edit] Sorry, didn't see your last post.
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So i would be able to span 3 joists but not stagger, isn’t that an issue or does it matter since I will be adding the 1/2 perpendicular to it?
Perhaps I'm a bit slower this morning, but I don't understand the question.

The part I think I understand is wrong, though. Your second layer must be oriented perpendicular to the joists, the same direction as the first layer. Did you note the Liberry article in post #27?

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-11-2021, 09:35 AM   #33
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I did read it but my mind is playing tricks on me, so the 3/4” layer runs perpendicular with the joists and the 1/2” does as well? (With the correct overlaps of course)

Well dang, you see I am a woodworker/furniture maker and have done a fair bit of veneer work, laminate work (in my younger yrs as a cabinet maker) and its all about balancing your stackup, alternating grain directions… so i was thinking that second layer would make for a stiffer floor going the other direction… the picture in that article is a little deceiving, or well could be my eye/brain connection- perhaps a short circuit…
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Unread 09-11-2021, 11:06 AM   #34
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Go back to the Liberry and scroll alla way to the bottom where you find the Wood Framed Floors thread, Mark. In there, scroll down to post #10 for a better idea why you want that second, and all other layers of structural subflooring to be oriented with the face grain perpendicular to the joists.

Today's four-layer, nominal half-inch, plywoods are essentially worthless if oriented parallel to the structural framing members.

I understand the confusion with the photo in the article I linked. It does at a glance appear to show half a sheet of the second layer perpendicular to the first layers. You do hafta pay close attention to see that's not the case.

I also understand the confusion based upon non-structural woodwork and trim where we've (a lot of us) always used our engineered sheets perpendicular to one another in many applications. And the face grain on our hardwood veneer plywoods is not necessarily the strength axis of the panel, eh?

Structural plywoods? Always, always face grain perpendicular to the framing members for minimum deflection.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-12-2021, 06:51 PM   #35
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Smile

Thanks cx, think i got it thru my thick head now, 3/4 and the 1/2 perpendicular to the joists…

Few other updates, got all the tile demo’d, was barely even stuck… see pic.

Since the shower isn’t scheduled to be done until the middle of Oct I am trying to keep the current shower/tub in place until the Thursday before the Monday that he will start, its the only one we got and I figure the wife will start to stink on day 3, she grew up on a dairy farm so she may be ok with that

So I tried to remove the top 1/2” to get ahead of the game but it appears it is randomly glued with liquid nail or something else so will just wait and take it out all at once.

Also appears there is no support on either side of the floor as the joist is behind the stud wall, thinking i will use joist hangers and block between the joists and notch the blocks and lay in a 2x4 for a ledger, suppose that is a good approach unless you folks have a wiser idea…

So as far as electrical, i ran on 12/2 for the floor and it will be dedicated for that. Going to run another 12/2 because it’s only like 10 feet and i have plenty of room in my panel (I have 2 - 100A panels) for the outlets. The existing power in the room is just on 14/2 and 15a so I will dedicate that to the lighting.

The picture of the plumbing: that is for 2 sinks and the 1-1/2” stack is servicing only the 2 sinks, thinking i should cut the copper at about 5 feet and replace it pvc and 2-45’s instead of the 2-90’s, does that make sense? I think the 2-45’s are preferred over the 2-90’s.

How about the 2-1/2” copper pipes coming thru the 2x4, it’s so tight i duno how they even got them to pass thru…
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Unread 09-12-2021, 07:15 PM   #36
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Can't legally run a 2 1/2" pipe through a nominal 2x4 stud, Mark. If you'll look in our Liberry under Lumber Notching and Boring, you'll find a couple links to guides for that sort of calculation.

As for the 90s in the strictly vent pipe, I don't think anyone cares about that at all. Well, 'cept you, maybe. You can certainly use 1/8th bends instead if you prefer.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-12-2021, 07:55 PM   #37
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Are you referring to the existing hole with nothing in it? That’s how I found it so i will double up the stud. The existing vanity was 60” with two sinks, i am planning on to separate 30” vanities so i will need to replumb…
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Unread 09-13-2021, 06:34 AM   #38
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Don't know how tall your previous vanities were, Mark, but if they were 30's and if you're going back in with 36's you'll likely need to raise the drain lines. Had to do the same in my master, and now in the guest bath I'm currently working on. your vanity installation instructions should have the drain height detail.

I like the dedicated 12/2 20A for the receptacles, did the same, with a double gang box for each vanity since I had the space. I'd have been envious of your short panel-to-bathroom run, I had no such luck.
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Unread 09-13-2021, 07:40 AM   #39
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The original vanity was a 60” with two sinks. There will be 2 separate 30” vanities that I will be building, they will be 36” tall. Not sure how to figure the height of the plumbing yet.

Thinking this is how I should reconfigure my single drain to two, minus the pex (doesn’t look like it was done well) as I will use copper.

And i lied about the wire run, more like 20’ and no fun to pull - had to squeeze into a 5 gallon bucket wide space between a stairwell and kitchen wall and pull 90deg from the far end behind all the pipes, the 15 pds I gained working at home hasn’t helped…
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Unread 09-14-2021, 08:35 AM   #40
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Hello again, question on use of a vapor barrier.

When i demoed the walls there was a plastic vapor barrier installed on the opposite side of the interior wall of the bathroom, they are all interior walls except one. Is it supposed to be there? I think even one wall had it on both sides of the studs.

I am in the northeast (Vermont) I thought a vapor barrier if any goes on exterior walls only with the plastic on the inside side of the wall. Honestly I don’t know if this is valid anymore anyways.

Thanks for your help!
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Unread 09-14-2021, 08:49 AM   #41
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Mark, I think the vapor retarder membrane on the inside of the exterior walls in your climate is still a valid part of the package according to the current building science thinking. Using a vapor barrier material on interior walls is something I've not seen, nor can I think of a valid reason for it. But, then, arguments about various aspects of residential building science have been raging for generations and some of them will never result in universal agreement.

Perhaps someone else out there will know of a possible reason for what you're seeing. I don't.
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Unread 09-17-2021, 10:20 PM   #42
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Thanks cx on the vapor barrier info, i think i will just remove it from the interior walls.

More questions on the subfloor, I think it will be very difficult to get the 3/4” - 4 x almost 8’ in the bath. So essentially i would be looking at 44 x 48 and 48.25 x 48 pieces for the 3/4 t&g each piece over 2 full joists and 2 1/2 joists.

The other reason for doing it this way is that i can do some of the 3/4 before I tear out the existing tub/shower

I think I could wrestle the 1/2” and stagger per advised on top of the 3/4”

Opinions and expertise appreciated on whether this plan will work or if i need to stick with trying to get the full 3/4” sheet to work

See pics for proposed plan, the red is the 3/4” t&g and the grey is the 1/2”
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Unread 09-18-2021, 07:48 AM   #43
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Needless to say, Mark, whenever you can use a full sheet that would be ideal, but sometimes it's just not gonna happen. If I were using only the 3/4" layer I'd want to strive for full sheets but, since you're going over it with 1/2" and appropriately staggering the seams I just wouldn't worry that much about using partial sheets of the 3/4". It'll be very solid.
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Unread 09-20-2021, 08:30 PM   #44
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Well looks like i got bigger problems than i planned, the first 2 pictures show the butchered joist and half a#&$@!s mini scab which is also butchered.

This is right under the to be new shower, additionally the toilet rough in 12” is pretty much center of the joist, thinking using an offset flange might work

Third picture is the proposed fix showing the small scab removed and green sister added, i would make it as long as possible but probably not much more than shown. Would use PL premium and GRK RSS structural screws.

Feed back appreciated
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Unread 09-20-2021, 08:37 PM   #45
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Judging proportionally from your drawing (really good graphics, by the way), I would think your sister would be adequate.

If you're talking about a WC drain from the back wall with your 12 inches, keep in mind that's from the finished wall and is a minimum dimension. You could move it out from the wall a bit to accommodate the drain to miss the framing if required. You can later fur out the wall if desired.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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