Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 10-14-2014, 12:27 PM   #1
carrud
Learnin alla time
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 190
Mark-ma Shower

Though I know very little I have been asked by a neighbor to review their contractor work in progress. I see enough that bothers me and would like some pro input so I can guide them in discussions with their contractor.

I'll post questions, but if you see something in the pics that I have missed please input.

In Southern California
On Slab on Grade
Tar paper applied behind Hardibacker

1) Re: Curb, Curb is made of 2x4. Is this the proper wood for this?
2) Re: Curb, with this type of waterproofing membrane could bricks be used?
3) Seems to be missing membrane piece up the top of curb to up the wall, no?
4) Nail on top of curb to hold membrane. Is this acceptable? How/where else to attach?
5) There is a gap in the back corner where the Hardibacker side wall does not well meed the Hardibacker back wall. Enough for me to stick my finger in the gap. Is this any concern?

I have informed my neighbor they need to take a couple pick every hour depending on what work is going on.

Thanks for your help.

-Clark
Attached Images
          
__________________
Clark
carrud is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 10-14-2014, 12:57 PM   #2
e3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: mi.
Posts: 4,919
Send a message via Yahoo to e3
the curb is not done right, and will leak..I would use pre-made corners to flash it.
the backer board on curb was nailed through,the waterproofing,and is not done right.
__________________
Eric
Noble Company
e3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-14-2014, 03:46 PM   #3
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,639
There are two types of what we called cbu...those that are all cement, and those called fiber-cement board. The installation instructions when building a shower differ between the two. WIth a fiber-cement board (Hardie is a fiber-cement board), it must NOT have its lower edge buried in the setting bed...it must end ABOVE the setting bed. A 'real' cement cbu can be. Since the setting bed is usually used to help anchor the bottom edge of the cbu, it becomes really problematic with a fiber-cement board since you can't put fasteners within 3" above the top of the curb, and in this case would mean the bottom 6" or so of the board.

Was the liner set on a pre-slope, or set directly on the flat floor? While some think that the tile is waterproof, and if it is sloped, it's fine, code requires the waterproofing layer to be sloped to the drain, and this is the LINER, not the setting bed.

Other than Hardie not being installed properly, nails through the liner inside the shower (the top of the curb is considered IN the shower and they probably used some on the inside of the curb as well!), and no indication of curb corners to make the seals at the corners, the slope might be right! Otherwise, it's a hack. They want a vapor barrier behind the cbu, and tar paper works...many use plastic sheeting because it can go up with fewer pieces, but either can work.

IOW, this would not meet any industry standards on how to build a shower. If they did a flood test (and you should ask for one that lasts at LEAST 24-hours), I'm pretty certain that you'd find that thing leaks like a sieve. Not good for long-term reliability.

There's more than one way to build a successful shower, but this isn't following any of them!
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-14-2014, 04:09 PM   #4
Kman
Moderator
 
Kman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NW Arkansas, Ozark Mountains
Posts: 12,024
Looks like they slicked off the mud with a notched trowel. What's up with that?

Like the others said, lots of problems there. This shower needs only two things: A prybar and a hammer.
__________________
Kevin

The top ten reasons to procrastinate:

1.
Kman is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-14-2014, 04:10 PM   #5
Kman
Moderator
 
Kman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NW Arkansas, Ozark Mountains
Posts: 12,024
Oh, and a new contractor.

That's three things.
__________________
Kevin

The top ten reasons to procrastinate:

1.
Kman is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-14-2014, 08:33 PM   #6
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 33,617
Clark, I have to agree with the others. You might check out the "shower construction info" thread in the liberry. It shows the proper pan corners that they should have used.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-14-2014, 09:01 PM   #7
carrud
Learnin alla time
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 190
Thank you to all that have responded. I have been doing some research on my own, reviewing the liberry and such and coupled with the input here I have sent my neighbor lots of words and pics showing what is wrong and what needs to be done to fix. I wish I could talk directly to the contractor but he doesn't seem to speak enough english (Chinese, I think) or else he is playing dumb with me.

It was awesome to be able to look at their shower build and immediately know it was not right. Although I was not confident to make recommendations until I checked with you all, I at least have learned how to identify red flags and a bad job.

Many Thanks, Clark
__________________
Clark
carrud is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-14-2014, 09:21 PM   #8
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 33,617
One of your pics shows the Hardiboard on the inside of the shower curb. I don't see any nails in it on that end. Maybe he has the mud floor holding it in place, I don't know.

Without those pan liner dam corners, it will leak for sure. The nails thru the top of the curb liner will eventually rot out the curb.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-14-2014, 09:33 PM   #9
carrud
Learnin alla time
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 190
Correct, he did not have any fasteners on the inside of curb with the hardi being held in place only by the mud.

The conversation was very sketchy due to the language barrier and I could not understand how he intended to install the tile on that flimsy hardibacker. He has not yet taped.

-Clark
__________________
Clark
carrud is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-14-2014, 09:40 PM   #10
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc
Registered Muser
 
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Issaquah, Washington
Posts: 7,065
Ugh! Stop the guy right away. It's a leaker for sure.
__________________
James Upton DIYTileGuy.com
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-14-2014, 09:45 PM   #11
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 33,617
And Clark, what does he have planned for the top of the curb? It's not looking good.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-14-2014, 10:13 PM   #12
carrud
Learnin alla time
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 190
For the top of the curb he was simply going to install hardibacker (with screws into the curb) and tile onto that.

But, "Don't Worry", he said. "The thin set and tile will provide the waterproofing."

Funny, I have read on this John Bridge site so many hack scenarios like this that folks have run into. I just can't believe I actually found one right next door.

Certainly my neighbor has the last word, but I'm going to do everything I possibly can to stop this travesty.

-Clark
__________________
Clark
carrud is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-14-2014, 11:36 PM   #13
carrud
Learnin alla time
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 190
My neighbor just called me and is confused and scared about what to do next. I have them convinced that getting a different contractor is the best thing to do, they are hesitant but willing.

I just posted the following in the professional hangout.

-----------------------------------------------

Looking for somebody in Los Angeles/South Bay area to come in and replace the hack that is destroying my neighbors bathroom rebuild.

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...d.php?t=114477

My neighbor is feeling stuck and they don't know where to turn. And I don't have the time to help them (I'm not a pro, anyway).

Anybody in this geographic area that can help?

Thanks, Clark
__________________
Clark
carrud is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-16-2014, 09:54 PM   #14
carrud
Learnin alla time
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 190
They are keeping the original contractor but they are much more knowledgeable now and are moving to a totally different waterproofing system (Durock membrane system). I showed them plenty of info, pictures, and videos and the wife is not shy about forcing the guy to watch and read, right in her presence.

I got them to completely rip everything out to the studs and their guy is going to install from the ground up.

-Clark
__________________
Clark
carrud is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-16-2014, 10:10 PM   #15
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc
Registered Muser
 
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Issaquah, Washington
Posts: 7,065
Hopefully it will go better for them. Good thing you were watching.
__________________
James Upton DIYTileGuy.com
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My shower project - Mark in Houston Slumpert Tile Forum/Advice Board 66 12-24-2010 08:55 AM
Mark marksc Tile Forum/Advice Board 4 08-01-2009 07:04 PM
Mark the newbie Steam Shower project / questions Husker Tile Forum/Advice Board 7 01-13-2007 11:42 AM
Mark Lammert's Shower Project Mark Lammert Tile Forum/Advice Board 7 09-11-2005 07:29 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:00 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC