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Unread 12-27-2019, 09:13 PM   #16
jadnashua
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A bigger tile will end up using less grout.

You're right, the size of the tile doesn't really matter, but the larger it is, the harder it is to ensure you minimize lippage. The magic on a ceiling is 100% coverage, and that's harder to do the larger the tile as when you're pushing it and sliding it back and forth across the ridges of the thinset, your actual pressure per sqft applied is quite small.

You do need to ensure the substrate is well anchored to the joists, though.
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Unread 12-27-2019, 10:42 PM   #17
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Larger tile are often thicker, and therefore heavier. Not always, but many are.

The larger the tile, the flatter the ceiling needs to be. Otherwise you don't get good contact between mortar and ceiling. A good quality mortar is always helpful in overhead applications, and proper technique is also a must.

For what it's worth, I prefer epoxy grout in shower applications. It's messy, but very much worth it. Expect to pay more for the grout and the labor to install it.
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Unread 12-30-2019, 10:17 PM   #18
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As i said we are in our mid 60s.

One of the reasons I would like to use epoxy grout for ALL the tile in the bathroom not just the shower (planning on tile wainscoting for all the walls outside the shower), is that from what I have heard we would not have to keep re-sealing the grout every year or two, as when we get older we may not be able to do it ourselves.

BTW does one need to seal (and reseal) marble pencil in (or outside of) a shower? I was thinking of framing a horizontal accent strip in the tile with pencil.

Also is it realistic to use epoxy grout on the ceiling?

In any case if I can't get a contractor who is both willing to use and has experience with epoxy grout, are there some grouts better than others in terms of maintenance?

Thanks,
-karen
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Unread 12-31-2019, 02:30 AM   #19
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The tile we chose is porcelain but we want to put a border (which turns into an accent strip in the shower area) all around the bathroom

A border we found that we likes is:

https://www.flooranddecor.com/stone-...100131093.html

But I am seeing things elsewhere on the net that says can't use epoxy grout with a travertine material... Is that true even if you pre-seal the accent strip before grouting?

I know the travertine border/accent strip will need to be resealed regularly, but that would be a small area at a comfortable height.

As all the rest of the tile will be porcelain (with maybe some marble pencil in places), I know epoxy grout (if I can find someone to do it) would not be a problem outside the strip/boarder, but I suspect using different grout just for the border there would not be practical.

We really do want to keep maintenance to a minimum as we age so we really do want to use epoxy if we can.

if epoxy grout can not be used with that boarder, is there any natural stone that can be? (Have not had any luck finding a ceramic accent tile we like)

Thanks,
-Karen
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Unread 12-31-2019, 10:15 AM   #20
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I can't say that I've ever heard that epoxy and travertine don't mix. What sources are saying this?
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Unread 12-31-2019, 01:15 PM   #21
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Karen, here's one vote for the use of a good quality cementitious grout for the entire shower.

The ceiling grout is not likely ever to require any maintenance of any kind. Ceilings are a PITA to grout with any type of grout and there's no need to make it any more trying than it will be.

The walls might be somewhat easier to maintain with epoxy grout, but I still wouldn't bother using it for my own shower nor would I recommend the extra expense to one of my customers. YMMV.

The floor, in my opinion, not only does not want to be grouted with epoxy, but the cementitious grout does not even want to be sealed. You want that floor to be allowed to breathe to the maximum extent possible. Water will still penetrate the tile surface with the epoxy grout, but the epoxy will prevent the floor from drying and make any maintenance issue worse.

The very best thing you can do for shower maintenance, aside from physically drying it after each use, is to install and use a properly sized exhaust fan in the bathroom. Judicious choices in your personal care products used in the shower can also make a large difference I'm told. I've never paid much attention to that part.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-03-2020, 01:06 PM   #22
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Hi CX,

Thanks for your reply... but now I am confused...

I was under the impression that epoxy grout is considered to be the best in a bathroom (particularly a shower) and that one of the reasons to for that was that it does not need sealing and resealing as it is not porous so water does no penetrate it and it does not stain easily... and that the main reason it was not used more was cost and difficulty of woking with it (which raises costs too).

I was also under the impression that cementitious gout should be sealed to help prevent staining to keep it looking good and mimics water penetration...

But now you seem to be be saying that water being able somewhat penetrate the grout is a good thing ...


So is grout sealing something that should be done or not? Years ago we had another bathroom retiled under insurance coverage after a pipe burst... back then we knew nothing about tile (not much better now!) so had not even heard of sealing grout... So when the tile installer did not come back to seal the gout, we did not know too.. Over time the color of teh gout has darkened and became somewhat blotchy...I assumed that was because of the permeability of the cementitious grout...

So I am confused... While we are far from rich, we are getting older and want to minimize maintenance as we don't know how long we will be able to do it, but also to maximize resale sale (keep it looking good) for when we have to sell (maybe 15 +/- 5 years)...

To do that we are willing to spend more up front... Which is why I keep mentioning epoxy grout.. as I said I am now confused about the whole sealing thing.

Speaking of sealing we went back to the the tile store where we intent to buy our main porcelain tile (they have a tile we really like) and showed the guy teh accent strip we wanted to use that we got a sample of else where:

https://www.flooranddecor.com/stone-...100131093.html

We are/were totally clueless about travertine(really about tile in general except what i read on teh net). That border strip is travertine ... (it has holes and some crumbled edges) when we showed it to him he said it is unfilled from Turkey (an kind of implied it was not the best quality)...

He said if we intend to use it in a shower (we do but also to go around the whole bathroom - planning on doing wainscoting- but lower than the existing tile) we would not not only have to keep resealing it, but do it every 6 months! Is that likely so?

Although we really like that border (the colors in the picture are nothing like the sample we have), now we are trying to find a porcelain boarder we like as much... but so far no luck...

If we need to keep resealing the tile around around the bathroom (including floor to ceiling in teh shower) the whole thing may be too much for us in the long run!

Thanks,
-karen
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Unread 01-03-2020, 02:39 PM   #23
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Karen, please not the last line in my post above yours and the last line that will be in this one. What I'm giving you is an opinion.

Many people agree with you about the use of epoxy grout in showers. I just happen not to be one of those.

The purpose of penetrating sealers is primarily to allow a bit more time to clean up spills and such before they can soak deeper into the grout or stone (sometimes ceramic tile). I just don't see much advantage to that in a shower application. While they should, and sometimes do, actually stop liquid water from penetrating, they should not, and do not, prevent water vapor penetration, although they do retard it a bit, some more than others.

The epoxy grouts do not allow water to penetrate them, but that doesn't ensure that moisture or vapor does not penetrate the joints around them or through some of the tiles around them. Moisture will get behind the tile surface and you want it to have a way out - at least I do. The epoxy grout reduces that capability. And while there is a substantial vapor drive in a shower to get the moisture to the back side of the tile, there is little or no such vapor drive in the other direction. And even should you still want to do your shower walls in epoxy grout, I would still very strongly recommend you not use it on the shower floor.

Sealing and resealing travertine on shower walls is a customer choice. I have showers out there with tumbled travertine accent strips and tiles that I have seen after 15 years or so that I know have never been sealed and they look just fine. Even without any meticulous care, as evidenced in the rest of the shower, I see no indication that the travertine is in any worse condition than the ceramic tile in the same shower or the same travertine outside the shower.

Again, much depends upon how the shower is used and maintained and the expectations of the owner, but I don't recommend epoxy grout in showers as a rule. And I think applying penetrating sealers to cementitious grout in a shower application is at best wasteful and at worst a negative overall.

But that's:

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-10-2020, 11:57 PM   #24
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Tile Wall used as backsplash for vanity... behind or on top?

I have a small bathroom and have to use an 18" deep vanity (with a 19" deep granite top), which makes every milliliter of space on the vanity top matter!

The wall the vanity will be on will be tiled and the porcelain tile has a slightly bumpy surface to simulate a natural stone (don't know if that matters)

I have read that when you use wall tile as backsplash, one uses caulk the same color as the grout so that is how try seal between the granite and tile should be made ...

But my question is:

Does the vanity and it's top need to be installed before tiling so that the the tile sits on the top of the vanity to get a good waterproof seal

OR

Can the vanity just be put against the wall after tiling and the top caulked to the wall?

Believe it or not the the tile sitting on the vanity top vs caulking the granite top to wall, makes a difference in the sink and faucets I can use!!!

Of course a good lasting waterproof seal is what is most important.

So what is best practice for a using a tiled wall as a vanity backsplash?

Thanks
-Karen

Last edited by KarenA01; 01-11-2020 at 12:29 AM.
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Unread 01-11-2020, 03:08 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenA01
Does the vanity and it's top need to be installed before tiling so that the the tile sits on the top of the vanity to get a good waterproof seal
Do that one
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Unread 01-11-2020, 07:58 AM   #26
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Good morning, Karen,

We've merged your two threads on your bathroom project. Having all the project history in one thread helps all the contributors know what questions and answers are, and provides a useful big picture. We can rename your thread at any time.
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Unread 01-11-2020, 08:06 AM   #27
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To your latest question. The short answer is yes, no reason you cannot install the tile first and then have the vanity top butt up against the tile.

If I were to do it that way, and assuming the tiled floor is already installed, I'd measure the height of the vanity and then mark the wall with that measurement, left and right. Add 1/8th to the measurement to ensure the vanity can be pushed all the way against the wall with out the bottom of the wall tile interfering.

Or, and perhaps better, set the vanity in place and then mark the wall at both ends - this accounting for any out of level conditions.

Given the description of your wall tile you'll need to be careful with the caulk. I'd also want to caulk that joint before the faucet is installed. If things are that close you'll have a devil of a time otherwise.
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Unread 01-11-2020, 08:43 AM   #28
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Thanks for the replies.

I had hoped the other way (Putting tile on first and then caulking top to tile wall) would be OK but suspected it would not be <sigh>.

That means I have to go with a rectangular sink when oval would be better for the style of the bathroom.

Oh well. As I said making sure water does not get through is the most important factor... Wish my bathroom was bigger!!!!

-Karen
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Unread 01-11-2020, 09:10 AM   #29
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No, Karen. You can install the vanity and top either way. They are referring to the most common method. That method makes it easier to eliminate unsightly gaps because the tile will cover most gaps due to walls and vanities not being perfectly flat on their mating surfaces. That method also makes it easier to fasten the vanity to the wall, as you don’t have to penetrate the tile to reach the wall studs.

But...If you want to install the vanity first, then tile around everything to eliminate gaps, and then finally install the top so that you’ve got enough room for either the oval top or the faucet, go ahead.

Tell us which part doesn’t have enough room and we may be able to suggest a solution (like carving out a little of the vanity’s front top rail so the sink bowl can fit into a tight spot).

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Unread 01-11-2020, 09:11 AM   #30
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Perhaps I wasn't clear, Karen, you certainly CAN install the tile first.
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