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Unread 01-11-2020, 11:57 PM   #31
jadnashua
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The granite fabricator can tweak the top to follow any imperfections in the plane of the tiled wall. If you're buying a pre-fabed one, you can probably buy a diamond cup wheel to shape the back, if needed, to any imperfections on the wall.
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Unread 01-16-2020, 06:01 PM   #32
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Thanks All,

I decided to go with a smaller sink so the tile can sit on the granite top - which is likely best anyway.

But now I have another tile related question.

I am planning to tile part way up the wall all around the whole bathroom outside the shower and to the ceiling (and the ceiling!) in the shower.

At the top of the base tile (which will be porcelain and NOT rectified) I plan and to have a 4" tall boarder bounded by pencil above and below.
The boarder as discussed previously is made from travertine pieces on mesh which make a "wave" pattern... Not exactly a mosaic, but along the same idea except it is separate pieces making up a pattern.

The rest of this here i am surmising based on what I have read and may be wrong about there being an issue here...

The thing is the gaps in the some parts of the Wave pattern are large enough from I've read to need sanded grout...

So what is the issue? Sanded grout is likely needed for the base porcelain tile too

Well the pencil I wanted to use is marble and from what I have read would be scratched if sanded grout was used ...

With the tile below it and the wave border needing it, it seems to me bounding the border with scratchable marble pencil could be an issue...

Is what I am wanting to do impractical? Can sanded and unsanded grouts be used in combination like that?

in case what I am planning is not clear, i am including to scale drawing of what I am thinking about..

The blackish areas on the wave boarder are what needs to be filled with grout.

If that boarder is problem would it be OK to use a mosaic that can use unsanded grout for the pencils and the boarder, and sanded for the porcelain tile? (though in tub/shower teh porcelain tile would be above the upper pencil too)

Thanks,
-Karen
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Unread 01-16-2020, 07:17 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen
I plan and to have a 4" tall boarder bounded by pencil above and below. The boarder as discussed previously is made from travertine pieces on mesh which make a "wave" pattern... Not exactly a mosaic, but along the same idea except it is separate pieces making up a pattern.
Karen, just FYI, in the ceramic tile industry a mosaic tile is one with a facial area of less than 9 square inches. I'm not gonna address your "boarder" on accounta I don't really believe you have a 4" tall boarder.

The sanded/unsanded grout recommendation in the industry standards breaks at 1/8th of an inch grout joints. I rarely use unsanded grout these days and I'll use sanded until the joints are just too small to force it in there or if grouting a tile that will definitely be harmfully scratched by a traditional sanded cementitious grout.

Having seen mounted mosaics similar to yours, I've found they can usually be grouted with sanded grout so long as those white pieces aren't subject to scratching. You'll need to test what you have before you decide what grout to use, but you'll get a better job if you find you're able to use a sanded grout.

You might also look into one of the single-component grouts now on the market as they are technically sanded, but with less abrasive aggregates. And I believe there is at least one sanded cementitious grout that is said to have much finer aggregate than others, but I disremember which one it is. Perhaps someone else will fill in that blank for you.

Mount a section of your mosaic and trim tile and grout it very aggressively with whatever grout you really want to use and gauge the result before you make your decision would be my advice.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-16-2020, 09:07 PM   #34
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Thanks CX,

Initially I was not so much concerned about that 4" tall travertine pattern on mesh (what would yoiu call that? I called it a boarder), but maybe i should be...

I just though with the size of those gaps they would expect sanded grout to be used on it...

What I was worried about was the effect of sanded grout on the marble pencil liners above and below it.

But the from the sounds of it I have to be worried about that pattern as well.

Thanks,
-Karen
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Unread 01-16-2020, 09:20 PM   #35
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I was making fun of your use of the word boarder as opposed to border, Karen. Disregard failed attempt at humor.

If the grout joints are smaller than 1/8th" the manufacturer might expect the use of an unsanded cementitious grout, but more likely they wouldn't have given it much thought.

Are your pencil liners a polished marble?
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Unread 01-16-2020, 10:00 PM   #36
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I missed my misspelling!

The pencil I am considering using is polished marble but at this time nothing but the porcelain tile is written in stone... And no I was not making pun!

-Karen
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Unread 01-17-2020, 12:39 PM   #37
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Hi CX,

One more thong about the mounted mosaic shown above. The vendor web site says the surface Texture/Surface is Polished or High Gloss, but it does not feel nor look polished or high gloss to me.

Of the not too outrageously priced borders we have seen, we liked this one far and away the best (lat least how it looks before grouting!)... but I keep worrying about actually using it in a shower.

Maybe it is just my ignorance...

At the store the placard said it could be used in a shower. As can be seen above the travertine is unfilled, and the sample I have at home has the corners on a some of the edge squares a bit crumbled...

I keep seeing people online in many different places saying it is not a good idea to use unfilled travertine in the shower as mold and mildew can form from moisture in the pores...

And I see people taking about filling the holes with grout...

But I have seen here and elsewhere I have been told the travertine should be sealed before grouting (and again after) else the look can be changed negatively ...

The sealing before seems to be for "grout release"... that would seam to imply the grout out not stay in the holes and thus using the mosaic be a problem in wet areas...

As I said we really like the look of this mosaic... but I am worried that using it might be a big mistake for the long run... one we won't be in a position to be able to fix!

Am I worried for nothing?

And then there is the polished marble pencil and if scratches during installation would be an issue...

We knew next to nothing about these things when we were picking stuff out...

But we are getting close now to starting the project, so final decisions have to be made pretty soon!

Thanks,
- Karen
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Unread 01-17-2020, 06:06 PM   #38
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Small Bathroom Remodel Complete Gut

I don't know if posting this will change the thread title... If not, could a moderator please rename it?
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Unread 01-17-2020, 07:05 PM   #39
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Small Bathroom Remodel Complete Gut

As I mentioned above, we are getting close to having what we want nailed down.

While the bathroom is small this is going to be something for which we will need a general contractor for.

If there are some things we can do ourself to reduce cost we will, but we need to make sure that project is done right and we are not biting off more than we can chew given our lack of knowledge/skill/experience (and age!). We can't afford big mistakes!

Besides all the tile work (Tub/Shower area walls & ceiling - rest of room wainscoting), we need to have a HEAVY early 1950's cast iron PINK tub taken out, and replaced with a new HEAVY cast iron tub in a bit more modern color

The exhaust fans (2 of them in a 46 SqFt bathroom!) are vented to the attic instead of outside which need to be dealt with, all the lighting need to be redone... etc etc...

Even the demolition will not be easy...

Because some floor tiles have cracked and come out, we know that there are AT LEAST two layers of tile on the floor... By the side of tub some tiles have have come off (BTW previous owners put a plastic surround OVER the tile around the tub!) and the cement backer board looks not to be in great shape...

Oh and with that we found out there are two sets of cove tiles at the bottom.. The "outer" ones are white to match the current wall tile... The coves BEHIND those are PINK - the same shade as the tub!

The current wainscoting is 54" high but all needs to come down. The new tile wainscoting will be shorter so the plaster walls will need to be resurfaced to be painted above them...

I think the original work when the house was first built was done right (BTW we heard the first owner long ago an electrician) , but sequently there was a lot do it yourself work by owners after that who did not know what they were doing and/or were trying to do things as cheaply as possible.

Anyway I want to make sure that things get done right this time. To that end I want to create a detailed plan for the bathroom that specifies some best practices that I expect to be used (I have read some of the stories here about the bad "professionals" out there!) as a starting point for contract discussions with contractors.

So I will have number of questions about such things.

We looked into doing this a few year ago but some financial issues came up that made us put it off... but it is getting worst and needs to be addressed now, though less ambitiously than we were hoping to back then.

Last time contractors wanted to use Mastic for all the bathroom tile... including ones who were recommended to us as good.

But I read in a number of places that it should NOT be used in the shower area or the bathroom floor ... that thin-set should be. As for walls/backsplash it's good idea to use thin-set in a bathroom though mastic could be used.

So my question is this:
Should I insist that thin-set be used for all the bathroom tile work? Or just the tub/shower area?

What about the ceiling tile in the shower? (low 88" ceiling so it gets wet with very shower)

As I start writing things up I am sure I will have more questions... please bear with me.

Thanks,
-Karen

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Unread 01-17-2020, 07:11 PM   #40
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Also, this is a ranch with a basement (the bathroom is on the first floor not the basement). Should I require they use an uncoupling membrane like Ditra on the floor?

None of the contractors the first time had that in their proposals/ materials lists.

Thanks,
- karen
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Unread 01-18-2020, 08:49 AM   #41
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An awful lot to digest and reply to there, Karen, but good for you for recognizing that nailing down the details for construction and materials is an important first step.

1st, I think it'll be nearly impossible to find a contractor to which you can dictate all aspects of the methods he will employ to execute your job, but hopefully you can find someone who will listen to your concerns and suggestions so you end up with the product you want. Water proofing, for example; some will want to do it one way while others another. Both can be viable, and you'll need to be open minded.

Get a detailed estimate, listing process and materials. Use that to do your research here and elsewhere.

Tile wise, especially in the shower area, you'll have to decide what you can live with. Any tile that doesn't have a smooth surface, that has a high moisture absorption rate, will tend to collect stuff and will increase maintenance. So, too, will accents like pencil strips because they create somewhat of a ledge that water can sit on at the grout line. The longer water sits the more likely mold growth will occur. Sealing the grout may help a little but must be reapplied frequently. More maintenance. Y'all will hafta decide where your maintenance pain point is, but it's likely to shift as you age.

Given you're in a ranch and the bathroom is on the main floor, that floor will be constructed of wood. You don't technically need any kind of membrane but it certainly would be good insurance. A more pressing concern is if the floor structure is sufficiently stiff to support a tile installation. It likely is from what I've read but it still needs to be verified.
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Unread 01-18-2020, 09:05 AM   #42
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Forgot to add...

While mastic can be used outside of the wet area it should not be used within the wet area. You can avoid any misunderstandings by specifying that thinset mortar shall be used everywhere. Further state that mastic shall not be used anywhere.
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Unread 01-18-2020, 10:13 AM   #43
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Thans Dan,

Your comments on cleaning textured tile has givens something to think about that might change the whole plan (sigh).

The tile we fell in love with is porcelain textured with a stone look (inkjet) that we think is beautiful... but we had not considered the cleaning ramifications.

When we step on the sample 8X 16" piece we have, it kind of grabs on to the foot and even more so the socks...

I initially thought what would be a good thing as it would be much less slippery than the tile we have on the floor now... But that makes it likely to be a dirt magnet. When we asked about that at the tile store the guy said as it is a glazed tile (but it does NOT look or feel glossy), cleaning would not be an issue... and we just accepted that...

If we change tile, it would likely change the entire color scheme and perhaps even for the bathroom so a lot of things we were planning to buy.

Thank you for bringing that up!

-Karen
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Unread 01-18-2020, 10:30 AM   #44
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That kind of tile isn't likely to be an issue on the main bathroom floor, Karen, and you're not likely to be using it on the shower floor, either. Regarding my maintenance comments, they were really focused more on the shower walls and floor, for that's where the majority of your ongoing maintenance challenges will be.

My recently finished shower walls are clad with polished 12X24 porcelain tile, with a small glass accent strip set flush with the face of the 12X24's. I squeegee the walls after every use - and am amazed how much water comes off the face of the tile (and the glass panel, and the top of the corner bench). I squeegee the floor, too. The down side is it takes me a few minutes to do it, the good news is I haven't had to clean it even once since I started using it at the beginning of this past October.

Just food for thought.
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Unread 01-18-2020, 10:44 AM   #45
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Hi Dan,

So do you think using that textured stone look Porcelain tile the shower walls. ceiling wold make maintenance a bigger hassle than a smooth tile?

I really appreciate your feedback... We really like the look, but as neither one of us grew up with or lived long term with tile bathrooms, we are not aware of a lot of the practical aspects.

Thanks,
- Karen
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