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Unread 06-18-2020, 08:27 PM   #1
presidentsdad
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Project: Jack and Jill #1

Hey all,
I have two Jack and Jill bathrooms I need to renovate and I'm in the middle of #1. The bathroom consists of two rooms. One is the sink room with an 88 inch double vanity and the other is the shower/toilet room which has a standard 5 foot tub/shower and a toilet. Need some help. The floor is not even close to level. It's pretty flat from the shower/toilet room out to about 32 inches into the sink room. Then it starts to go up from there. About 1" over the last five feet. I might not be measuring that correctly. I was thinking LVP or tiling, but I think with it that out, that maybe LVP is my only option? Would appreciate some assistance trying to figure out how to get it back to flat or level. My brain is full at the moment!

Thanks in advance. Let me know if you need more concrete measurements or some pix.
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Unread 06-19-2020, 03:53 PM   #2
presidentsdad
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Alright so as it turns out, over the almost 13' length of the bathroom, it's fairly flat. The first 6 ish feet (from back wall where the single water line is) is dead flat and the last 6.5' the level touches on both ends and the floor sags in the middle less than 1/4". Am I ok? Do I need to take up the top layer of subfloor and shim it with wood shims or shingles? I might mention the floor is NOWHERE near level, just looking for flat.
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Unread 06-19-2020, 03:53 PM   #3
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Also, I have no idea why these are upside down.
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Unread 06-19-2020, 04:21 PM   #4
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You're outside of the recommended limits for tiling, but it is fixable. Without tearing up the existing subfloor, truing up the joists, then installing new subflooring, what usually happens is to install some material over it to bring it into plane. Not all self-leveling thinsets actually self-level! Some can actually be built into ramps. A thixotropic version flows when agitated, and stays put when not and would let you flatten your floor. If you can accept level and the height increase, you could use an SLC over the entire floor. Note, some of them have some minimum thickness over a wooden subfloor, and many, not all, require the use of metal lath to provide a bit more strength. It's easier to level a room with the stuff when it is thicker rather than thinner. Some can go to a feather edge over a wooden subfloor (like Ardex liquid backerboard), but most cannot over a wooden subfloor. If it's just a dip, then Ardex liquid backerboard may be your easiest fix as it can fill in, and with some help, will produce a flat, level patch.

Have you verified that your joists are suitable for tile at all? Note, it's not the size of the room, it's what is supporting it underneath that matter.
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Unread 06-19-2020, 08:59 PM   #5
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What are the limits?
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Unread 06-20-2020, 07:31 AM   #6
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Pretty sure the floor can handle the weight. My home is 2 x 10 floor joists and nothing is over a 16 foot span for the whole house. Most of them are somewhere near 10-12 feet. This is also in the center of the house so it has some extra support with all of the load bearing walls that intersect in the middle of the house.
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Unread 06-20-2020, 08:20 AM   #7
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Marc, you can use our deflection calculator found in the dark blue bar at the top of the page to get a go/no-go reading on your joist structure, but I can tell you that 16-foot joists are gonna be overspanned for any common 2x10 framing lumber.

The tile industry standards for flatness depends upon the size of the tiles to be used, but the most lenient standard is no deviation from intended plane of more than 1/4" in ten feet nor 1/16th" in one foot. If your tiles have any side longer than 15 inches, the requirement is half that deviation.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 06-20-2020, 08:54 AM   #8
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Thanks CX. I'm fairly certain it's way less than 16' since this is in the center of the house where a lot of the load bearing walls meet downstairs. Probably thinking about a mosaic tile pattern on the floor. So likely less than 3" hexagonal tiles.

If I were to take up the top layer of subfloor that I just put down and shim it in the low spot to make it flat, would that work?
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Unread 06-20-2020, 09:24 AM   #9
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I should also note, that I'm replacing the tile that was in the bathroom previously. It was not cracked in any way. I think the house just settled in this spot (and a similar spot across the hall.
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Unread 08-02-2020, 10:38 AM   #10
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Need some thinset advice for over Kerdi - Shower Wall Tile

Hey all,
Been here many time seeking advice and I always get good info!

Setting 3x6 subway wall tiles over Kerdi. I know Schluter says to use ANSI 118.1 unmodified thinset mortar. Typically, I'd go with Custom Building Products Custom Blend standard mortar. But, the last time I did this the tiles would not stay where I put them (they slid down the wall). I'm not a huge fan of setting wall tile and can use all of the help I can get.

Given that I'm not a wall time setting fan....I've heard that non-slump/non-sag thinset could assist me with my wall tile setting and it seems that Kerabond T fits both the non-sag and the ANSI 118.1 needs.

Question: Will this help me with my wall tile setting (meaning the tile will stay where I put it)? OR will Kerabond (regular) do the same thing? I only need one bag so the cost is not really an issue.

Thanks for the help.
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Unread 08-02-2020, 11:04 AM   #11
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This for your Jack & Jill bathroom, Marc?

Please do not use Custom Blend for that or any other purpose except maybe for bedding CBU on a floor installation.

For wall tiles I use regular thinset mortar (ANSI A118.4) and not any of the thixotropic (non-sag) mortars. You can certainly do that if you like, but I'd strongly recommend you buy some wedge-type spacers to use for some adjustment, which I feel sure you're gonna need.

No, the Kerabond will not provide the non-sag properties that the Kerabond T has (the T is for thixotropic).

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 08-02-2020, 12:27 PM   #12
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As a DIY'er myself I used kerabond T over kerdi board and it seems to work great. I had to use spacers and a ledger board for my 12 by 24 tiles and for the 4 by 13 I am using now in the 2nd bathroom. It holds well but will slide down without the ledger for the first few rows.
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Unread 08-02-2020, 01:05 PM   #13
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If your wall tile has built in spacer lugs, you'll want to stack them together, with the exception of a minor adjustment here and there.

You can start on the floor and get your first row level on which you'll build successive rows, or set a ledger board and work up from there. You can remove the ledger and patch the holes the next day.

There's really no need for a non-sag mortar for that kind of tile installation.
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Unread 08-02-2020, 06:06 PM   #14
presidentsdad
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CX... Yes. It's for the jack and Jill but for whatever reason I couldn't find that post. The cbp met ANSI 118.1 and I used that under the kerdi for this bathroom and for my other bathroom Project 10 yrs ago. Do I need to be worried?
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Last edited by presidentsdad; 08-02-2020 at 09:31 PM. Reason: correcting autocorrect
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Unread 08-02-2020, 06:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc
I used that under the kerdi for this bathroom and for my other bathroom Project 10 yes ago. Do I need to be worried?
It's been 10 years and you haven't started worrying yet? Start worrying immediately!!

Custom Blend is about the bottom of the line in dry set mortars. We don't recommend it for anything other than bedding cement board to the floor. Waterproofing membranes require a premium unmodified mortar.

But if you've made it 10 years without any problems, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Obviously you did something right. Just remember for future projects to use a better product.

I'll see if I can locate your original project thread and merge this thread with it.
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