Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-15-2017, 09:49 PM   #1
RockBait
Registered User
 
RockBait's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 27
Master Bath Remodel by DIY'er

First a big thanks to all the Pro's that make the time and effort to patiently and repeatedly respond to questions and cries for help from us DIY'ers. I've been stalking this site for some time now and have learned tons. As a result I'm now changing from a liquid membrane and vinyl liner to all Kerdi membrane. I've purchased JB's Kerdi book and will be replacing the 2x4 curb with block. I already have the Hardi up so I'll make sure they're wet and use versabond. The floor will be a mud pre-slope and this is where I'm stuck. I didn't give enough thought to drain placement and simply used what was there from the spa tub. I've already set the new drain 1/2 in from the cement subfloor. In the pics below you can see that it's at the far end of a 7 foot long shower. It's a little over 2 feet from the wall on the left and 1 1/2 feet from the pony wall on the right. It's 6 feet from the back wall and 9 inches from the wet wall. The better bench front lip will line up with the level I placed on the floor. My plan was to use the divot method now that I'm switching to Kerdi, which also allows me to go from a 6 inch curb to 4. My concern is that I'll end up with a shower floor that'll feel like one's been on a bender Should I be concerned? If so what are my options? I'd prefer minimal concrete work if possible. My thoughts:
1) Can I put in a linear drain with the tray sloped to the current drain?
2) Since the drain is under the bench can I just put an open sloped trench in with a recessed grate over the drain?
3) Drink 3 or 4 beers before getting in the shower?
I'm sure there's a big difference between can and should. Look forward to recommendations from the pro's. Thanks in advance.
Ray


Name:  IMG_2693.jpg
Views: 475
Size:  21.4 KB
Name:  IMG_2692.jpg
Views: 464
Size:  18.2 KB
__________________
Ray
RockBait is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 10-16-2017, 07:57 AM   #2
cx
Da Home Builder
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 86,554
Welcome, Ray.

If you intend to do a Kerdi shower you'll need to do some concrete chipping to install the correct drain anyway, so it'd be a good time to relocate the drain to the center of the shower. If you elect to use a linear drain you'll wanna move the drain closer to that back wall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray
The floor will be a mud pre-slope and this is where I'm stuck.
There is no pre-slope with a direct bonded waterproofing membrane shower, you'll have only one properly sloped floor under the membrane.

With the rather severe slopes you're likely to have with your current drain location, having it under a bench would be a good idea, but do keep in mind that you'll be seriously limiting your access to the drain and trap in that design. You'll still have some difficulty tiling the floor even if you use small mosaics.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 01:33 PM   #3
RockBait
Registered User
 
RockBait's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 27
Thanks for a prompt response CX. Looks like I have more cement work in my future. I'm assuming centering the drain within the shower floor is the best solution as it eliminates any severe sloping at the wet wall side and allows for easier access. If I went with a linear drain at the wet wall could I take the bulk of the slope in the first 2 or 3 inches from the side walls so that most of the center of the shower floor follows the 1/4" per foot slope from the back wall to the drain?

Separate questions - I redid the entire ceiling in the bathroom as well for can lights, fan relocation, etc. Do I tape and trowel the ceiling before I Kerdi the shower walls? Is there any benefit to putting Kerdi on the shower ceiling?
__________________
Ray
RockBait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 01:42 PM   #4
ZZZK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 372
Confused about your slope question Rockbait but just remember the that no part of the pan can be less than 1/4" per foot in slope. As long as you meet that minimum you are good to go.

There is no need to Kerdi the ceiling. There should be no where near that kind of moisture going to your ceiling. If you do you then have inadequate ventilation that must be addressed. A properly primed and painted ceiling is all you need assuming the bathroom is properly ventilated.

You can finish the drywall work in the bathroom in any order you want but I would not want drywall dust getting on my Kerdi if I could avoid it. I personally like to have all the drywall and paint work done before I waterproof and tile just make sure protect the paint on all your transitions while you tile.
__________________
John
ZZZK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 02:30 PM   #5
cx
Da Home Builder
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 86,554
Ray, I, too, am confused by your drain question. Maybe you could clarify a bit, starting with where you now intend to install the linear drain.

Unless you're building a steam shower, there is no need for Kerdi on the ceiling unless it's particularly low. Like below seven feet.

I would want all the drywall work done before installing the Kerdi. If you're hiring that work done, you'll need to take extreme measures to ensure that the drywall finishers leave your shower area alone. The only way I've ever found that works is to stand in the shower area and issue threats to anyone who brings drywall mud into that area. You may need to be armed.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 03:50 PM   #6
RockBait
Registered User
 
RockBait's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 27
Thanks John and CX. If I went with the linear drain it would be against the wet wall on the far right. I've done a bit more research on the linear drains and my understanding now is that the slope would go from back wall to drain only and that the side walls would end up with the bottom row of tile running slanted toward the drain. If my understanding is correct I do not want to have to trim the bottom row to maintain a level grout line, I'd prefer full tiles. So I think I'll stick with centering the drain and using the kerdi drain. Besides, I can't see installing a much more expensive linear drain that will be hidden by a bench. I can use the savings on beer
__________________
Ray
RockBait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 07:49 PM   #7
RockBait
Registered User
 
RockBait's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 27
Ok I'm past the shower floor issues - ordered a kerdi drain and located a demo hammer. Now onto the next area of need. The pics below are of the barbed quatrefoil stained glass window in the shower. (Yes, I had to look that up). It's made of cement and was already there (2nd pic is pre-demo). I'm looking for suggestions on filling the gaps around the window before I kerdi. I can redo the cut-out if needed but it'll never be a snug fit. I used 1/4 hardi in order for the thinset and tile to not extend past the framing of the window - I also added additional furring to provide additional support behind the hardi. My initial thought was to use a spray foam and trim level with the hardi before applying the kerdi, cut the kerdi to slightly curl onto the cement frame and then finish the tiling off with a silicon bead around the window. Thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks in advance.
Name:  IMG_2702.jpg
Views: 428
Size:  33.0 KB
Name:  IMG_2352.JPG
Views: 424
Size:  30.1 KB
__________________
Ray
RockBait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 08:19 PM   #8
Houston Remodeler
Pondering retirement daily

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 27,940
Ray,

There are a few ways to accomplish this task.

Did you want to stay with a full schluter shower ? Are you open to a hybrid shower by using other manufacturers?
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 12:08 AM   #9
RockBait
Registered User
 
RockBait's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 27
I'm open to anything that gives me a waterproof shower. Schluter seemed to be the most popular and complete system. I don't mind mixing components - I'm not expecting a warranty as a DIY'er - just a sound and long lasting solution.
__________________
Ray
RockBait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 01:30 PM   #10
RockBait
Registered User
 
RockBait's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
Did you want to stay with a full schluter shower ? Are you open to a hybrid shower by using other manufacturers?
It's almost like Kerdi has become the Kleenex or Coke of the waterproof membrane world. Is there a more cost effective alternative that provides the same waterproof results?
__________________
Ray
RockBait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 02:14 PM   #11
Carbidetooth
Hmmmmm
 
Carbidetooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,205
Can you shoot a close up photo or two of Hardie meets the window frame and maybe another of lower part without Hardie? Somehow you need to overlap waterproofing onto the window frame.

The hard part might be cutting tile to those shapes.

Not sure where the foam would come into play as it can't be structural.
__________________
Peter
Carbidetooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 03:06 PM   #12
RockBait
Registered User
 
RockBait's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 27
Thanks Peter. Here's the pic's.
Name:  IMG_2713.jpg
Views: 395
Size:  21.4 KB
Name:  IMG_2715.jpg
Views: 393
Size:  23.6 KB
Name:  IMG_2714.jpg
Views: 398
Size:  28.8 KB
__________________
Ray
RockBait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 03:34 PM   #13
Carbidetooth
Hmmmmm
 
Carbidetooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,205
Can't really see how much vertical edge there is where Hardie butts to window. Are you thinking tile butting into same edge?

One possibility would be to lose the furring and install Kerdiboard direct to wall using adhesive to float it plumb. You could do it in quadrants to make it easier to fit, or halves like you did the Hardie. Make a really tight template for the window and fit the K-Board. Gun some K-Fix on that junction. Double up on that seal with K-Band on top of K-Board and Kerdi Fix again. Tile and silicone caulk there again. Three lines of defense and they're all somewhat flexible, which I'd consider a must.

Also consider that the cement (concrete?) window frame is not waterproof, as cement wicks moisture. I'm assuming that's paint on there now, which isn't a very good waterproofing and really not very durable compared to tile and concrete...another puzzle.

Let's see what Paul has up his sleeve and I'll ponder some more. The above would not be endorsed by Schluter, of course.
__________________
Peter
Carbidetooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 04:13 PM   #14
RockBait
Registered User
 
RockBait's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 27
Thanks Peter! I've attached a side view shot of the kerdi / window. It's 1/2 inch from backer board to where the window frame begins to round in. My thought was to tile right up to the window - at least that's my first thought. The original tile job had like 40 small pieces fitted around the frame - much like I've seen on arched niches. (Hard to see in the 2nd pic)

I'll have to ponder using the kerdi board - I like the idea. The wall is so rough I had to grind spots and shim others to get the furring plumb. I have a good sized piece of drywall that I could play with to see if kerdi board would be viable.

Once I get to the window itself my thought was to see if I could sand it down and apply a concrete sealer, if not I'll use the sealer paint. It'll be what it'll be - the Mrs says it stays.

Name:  IMG_2716.jpg
Views: 390
Size:  21.5 KB
Name:  IMG_23522.JPG
Views: 391
Size:  17.4 KB
__________________
Ray

Last edited by RockBait; 10-17-2017 at 04:18 PM. Reason: Update on window
RockBait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 04:34 PM   #15
Carbidetooth
Hmmmmm
 
Carbidetooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,205
This might be helpful, but I've done similar with tape and cardboard strips. Not pretty but functional.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/QEP-10-in...032Q/202097525
__________________
Peter
Carbidetooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Joe's Master Bath Remodel pm634 Tile Forum/Advice Board 8 03-03-2015 08:48 PM
Master Bath remodel Stat Tile Forum/Advice Board 17 07-27-2013 09:43 AM
Ted's master Bath Remodel Ted Capra Tile Forum/Advice Board 36 02-18-2009 07:54 PM
Help With Master Bath Remodel socal_native Tile Forum/Advice Board 4 11-30-2008 12:19 PM
Ron's Master Bath remodel TRK333 Tile Forum/Advice Board 12 07-06-2007 09:42 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:31 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC