Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 06-08-2014, 02:24 PM   #1
crobinson22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 5
Kerdi drain install on cast iron drain in 3" slab?

Hello, Just discovered the site/forum about 5 min. ago - looks to be incredibly helpful! House: '53 City: Albuquerque. I have a ~3" separate slab under my shower stall and a what may be a cast iron drain pipe. I thought I might attempt to break out concrete around the drain to install a Kerdi drain w/ Fernco coupling but am wondering if I should be thinking about removing the entire slab down to the concrete pad the house sits on? I've been advised to use control joints around this separate shower slab, but am not confident about the concrete removal and cutting of the pipe (w/ inside pipe cutter for cast iron????dremel?) I'm not using correct search terms and/or just flat out can't find folks referring to what looks to be a shower "pan" that is essentially a 3" concrete slab. Thank you for any advice you might have, Charlie
__________________
Charlie
crobinson22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 06-08-2014, 02:38 PM   #2
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 92,302
Welcome, Charlie.

Some confusion here, maybe only terminology.

Is your foundation concrete SOG (Slab On Grade) construction?

Is this shower area dropped below the level of the rest of the concrete slab in the bathroom?

Let's start with that. Some photos might be very helpful. Use the paper-clip icon above the Reply dialog box to attach photos from storage on your computer.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2014, 02:38 PM   #3
Kman
Moderator
 
Kman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NW Arkansas, Ozark Mountains
Posts: 11,785
I have to call in my plumber on those cast iron drains. There's usually a rubber boot underneath that he pulls loose, then he installs an adapter and stubs up a 2" pvc line that I can put the Kerdi drain on.

Edit: I think he is referring to the mud pan in the shower that's over the slab. Charlie, if that's the case, you would need to remove the mud pan to install the drain. But with the Kerdi system, the only way to make it work effectively would be to demo the whole shower and start over.
__________________
Kevin

The top ten reasons to procrastinate:

1.

Last edited by Kman; 06-08-2014 at 02:46 PM.
Kman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2014, 02:43 PM   #4
Richard Tunison
Retired Tile Contractor
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Homosassa Springs, Fl
Posts: 2,689
Pictures of the shower from different angles and sides would be very helpful.

You can use the paperclip icon in the post reply box to upload files from storage on your computer. If under 2Mb, the forum software will resize them to fit.
__________________
Richard
Richard Tunison is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2014, 02:46 PM   #5
Richard Tunison
Retired Tile Contractor
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Homosassa Springs, Fl
Posts: 2,689
I'm thinking that you removed the curb and you now find a build up of some "mud",,,,,,,, not concrete but softer. Is that the case?
__________________
Richard
Richard Tunison is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2014, 03:00 PM   #6
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,230
If you have a clamping drain, Schluter does make a conversion drain to fit it. This assumes the rest of the plumbing is in good shape. Look at page 23 of this document...it shows a plastic clamping drain, but would also work with a CI one http://www.schluter.com/media/shower...v=201401311539

If your drain lines and trap might be in question, then it's better to tear it out and replace it all while you have things open, then use their normal, glue-on pvc or abs drain.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2014, 03:09 PM   #7
crobinson22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 5
Wow, thank you CX, Kman, Richard for the quick replies....totally unexpected! I figured I'd have to go away for a while and come back, like tomorrow! (I went online to price out a Bosch Bulldog)

Hopefully these pics uploaded ok. Yes, that's not a mud bed, that's a 3" concrete slab, on top of the the house slab (and a lot of kilz my wife slathered everywhere).

My big question was bust out the pad and go from there or work with the pad, making a hole around the existing drain for a new Kerdi (4 1/2" dia. x 3" deep)

Thanks again for the replies! Charlie
Attached Images
  
__________________
Charlie
crobinson22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2014, 03:40 PM   #8
Richard Tunison
Retired Tile Contractor
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Homosassa Springs, Fl
Posts: 2,689
Were this mine, I'd remove the concrete if for no other reason than when all is said and done (and honoring the top of the curb must be at least 2in. above the drain) that would give you about a 7in. tall curb.

Plus by removing it you would expose more of the plumbing so a connection to your new drain will be much easier to do.
__________________
Richard
Richard Tunison is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2014, 03:48 PM   #9
crobinson22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 5
Gotcha! Thanks Richard. I suspected as much. I was hesitant and thought that I might affect the house pad underneath, but I guess I'll have to take my chances. I got what I thought was good advice from floorelf.com (actually very helpful) but mostly about honoring the slab joints (edges), caulking around the whole pan. I read in another thread about older drains going straight down to the main vs. having a trap, I guess a flash light will tell me weather or not to saw around the trap if I have one, or just work on chipping out a hole for the Kerdi, right?
__________________
Charlie
crobinson22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2014, 04:05 PM   #10
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,230
It doesn't look like there is a liner in that shower at all, and the drain is not in the ideal location (i.e., centered), so, given that, it makes sense to me to tear it out.

TO check if there is even a trap, shine a flashlight down the hole...if you can't see the bottom or there's no water showing, try pouring some down....if there's a trap, you should see standing water. If there's no trap, you really want to tear out enough plumbing to install one.

CI can last a very long time, but it can also rot out...you don't want to be putting a new shower in and then find out your trap is shot and leaking.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2014, 04:18 PM   #11
crobinson22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 5
Thanks so much Jim. I saw standing water.......about 3' down! most pics I've seen show folks installing them about a foot down. So is the right thing to do: 1) bust out pad 2) cut 1' chunk out from drain to center of shower....4' deep, really? (I guess you gotta do what you gotta do) 3) install adapters + trap 4) them proceed with mud bed, kerdi install etc. etc.???

I'm all about doing the right thing. The house is really old, so there's no telling the state of the CI. I really appreciate your response, thank you!
__________________
Charlie
crobinson22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2014, 04:41 PM   #12
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,230
Personally, I would not be particularly happy with a trap 3' down!

The trap prevents sewer gasses (and bugs, etc.) from getting up into the house. But, 3' down also means you have 3' of pipe that could have all sorts of soap scum, body oil, etc. crud on the sides of the pipe that can smell pretty nasty. If the pipe is shorter to the trap, you have much less that can be an issue.

Note, you cannot put two traps in series and expect the shower (or anything) to drain well, so should you choose to relocate, that would mean digging out maybe more than you wish. Also, though, every trap should be vented, or depending on how it is placed in the system, it could get siphoned dry. The vent line MUST come off the trap arm before it turns downwards.

It's possible that there still is no trap and the line isn't sloped properly. If it is a trap, and you stuck something like a boom handle down there, it should only go about 2-4" before it hit the curve of the trap and stopped.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2014, 05:01 PM   #13
crobinson22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 5
there is a vent, it's hard for me to know how everything's plumbed, but it almost looks as if it's common to the shower drain, the sink, and possibly to tub and shower on the other side of the wall....does that sound right? I think if that is indeed the configuration then there is a sink drain between the shower drain and the vent.

I stuck a coat hanger down there while inspecting the pipe with a flashlight and the hanger just barely went past the water line, so there's either a bad slope or just crud down there, so no trap.

soooo...., maybe I can be optimistic and install a trap in the short trench from the existing drain to the center of the shower (where the new Kerdi will be installed) - does that sound reasonable?
__________________
Charlie
crobinson22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2014, 06:20 PM   #14
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,230
NOt all traps have a deep curve...it's hard to say without more investigation.

Keep in mind that, with minor exceptions, all traps need to be vented. That doesn't mean that they cannot be joined at some point, but the must be individually vented off of their trap arms.

Given that, it might be good to dig out a bit more and investigate. For plumbing issues, there are guys here that can help, but you might want to try www.terrylove.com for plumbing issues. You'd need to investigate a bit more to see exactly what you have first, though, or no specific info would apply.

In most places (depends on the code that applies where you live), on a 2" pipe, the vent must be within 5' of the trap. The distance depends on the size of the pipe...bigger can be further away (because there's more room, and less likely to be filled with water so air can move, thus the venting effect).
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cast iron drain to kerdi drain adapter? BearBAck Tile Forum/Advice Board 16 11-13-2011 08:27 AM
cast iron drain and kerdi drain? gmckay60 Tile Forum/Advice Board 16 06-19-2011 11:32 AM
Kerdi drain with cast iron drain pipe? madoka Tile Forum/Advice Board 5 04-30-2008 02:43 PM
Connecting Kerdi drain to cast iron drain pipe hopkibm Tile Forum/Advice Board 21 09-17-2007 11:33 AM
Difficult Kerdi drain connection vs. cast iron clamping drain alember Tile Forum/Advice Board 11 04-06-2004 04:40 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:57 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC