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Unread 12-30-2020, 10:38 PM   #1
zennifer
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Zennifer's Basement Shower with Linear Drain

Hi All! This is our shower. The area is 36"x60", with a 6" ledge(niche) 4 feet up the wall that isn't included in this. (Basement split level, we thought we might keep it instead of just sheet rocking it in?).

1) Foundation is a slab.
2) We will be using an infinity sizable drain, spanning the entirely of the floor (shown) and set from the left wall about 14" The actual drain is in an off centered odd spot.
3) Going to build a mud pan with a simple slope from both sides of the drain.
4) Planning a 4" curb (topped with a sliding glass shower door, semiframeless)
5) Tentatively planning an 18" bench on the right wall, though might just get a teak stool. (Thoughts?)
6) All walls are shown with dimensions as if sheet rocked (2/3 of the shower is currently sheet rocked)

I would love some advice on which method of waterproofing would be the best for us. It seems that with using the Infinity Drain, Kerdi is out, leaving the Hydroban sheet membrane or the Durock system?

Our experience with shower creation is nil. Our experience with tile is a few bathroom floors, kitchen backsplashes, and a basement family room. Our experience with DIY is two fixeruppers with large amounts of work needed. This shower pan may be the only thing we haven't tackled yet. Thanks!
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Unread 12-30-2020, 11:18 PM   #2
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Welcome, Jennifer.

Is this the drain to which you are referring?

My problem there is trying to determine just what kind of drain would accept a Laticrete or USG sheet-type direct bonded waterproofing membrane, but not a Schluter Kerdi membrane.

If you intend to keep your gypsum drywall on the shower walls, you're technically limiting your choices to Kerdi and possibly the Laticrete membrane, but I cannot locate information indicating the Laticrete membrane can be used over gypsum drywall in that application. Perhaps someone else can locate that information.

Let's start there.
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Unread 12-30-2020, 11:24 PM   #3
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Yes, that is the drain. I was under the impression that only Kerdi drains could be used with kerdi, but I’m guessing that’s false/only applicable to the shower pans?

The drywall needs to go one way or another (it’s finished), so just noted for any sizing reasons. Haven’t torn it out yet as we haven’t decided what to replace it with.

Thanks!
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Unread 12-31-2020, 10:29 AM   #4
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To clarify: wall coverings are tbd, and I think I’m wrong about not being able to use kerdi with an infinity drain?
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Unread 12-31-2020, 11:20 AM   #5
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I am so confused: the site sizable infinity drain listed above is only for “ Waterproofing: PVC/Vinyl liner, Lead/copper pan, Hot mop, Rubber liner, Fiberglass”, not kerdi/etc.

So if I want to use one of these seemingly better, easier ways, I have to find a different drain that CAN. :/

We could do the kerdi line drain, but it wouldn’t touch the wall on the wall side, by 4 inches.
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Unread 12-31-2020, 11:43 AM   #6
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Jennifer, that linear style drain appears to use a standard clamping drain system as the waterproofing method, the same as used in a traditional mud/liner/mud receptor. While there are methods of using direct bonded waterproofing membranes (Kerdi, Hudroban, USG Durock, etc) with that type of system, I see no advantage in this case because you'd still need a top mud bed regardless the waterproofing membrane you chose. That being the case, it would be less expensive to use a traditional PVC or CPE liner.

You would still need CBU walls and some sort of water containment system for those walls, which could be polyethylene sheeting or roofing felt behind the wallboard or one of the direct bonded waterproofing membranes on the face of the walls.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 12-31-2020, 12:02 PM   #7
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Yes; I honestly want to throw a little money at this and have it be easy and quality...I feel more confident going with what everyone here seems to be saying about one of these newer membrane versions being more fool proof?


That being said, I’ve realized that if I change the layout of the drain, I can use the kerdi line drain with no layout issues, like the pic. Thick red line is new drain layout, thin orange line is new bench layout.

So I think this query has changed, and maybe solved to a kerdi line drain with kerdi system stuff!?! unless anyone sees a problem with my thoughts?
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Unread 12-31-2020, 12:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer
I feel more confident going with what everyone here seems to be saying about one of these newer membrane versions being more fool proof?
Well, that would be a bit of an overstatement in my view, Jennifer.

While I do like the new direct bonded waterproofing membrane systems and have used a couple different ones, I would not describe them as being "more fool proof." They have their advantages, but also their disadvantages.

I have also built a good number of traditional shower receptor systems and they, too, have their advantages and disadvantages.

Fool proof? Nope, neither system. Both construction methods require attention to detail, they just differ in those details. You can do a correct and long lasting shower using either method; you can do an incorrect and short lived shower using either method. There are more 80-year-old traditional showers out there still functioning correctly than there are direct bonded waterproofing membrane showers of similar age.

But if you want to use the direct bonded waterproofing membrane system I would strongly recommend you choose a drain that is compatible with such systems and install it, and the rest of the shower, per the manufacturer's instructions. To. The. Letter. Well, except maybe for the choice of thinset mortar, but that's a different discussion, eh?

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 12-31-2020, 03:04 PM   #9
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Ok- I guess I need to go into the pros and cons of both.

Idothink I like this new layout better regardless....any thoughts on it not being great?

Floor is undecided (probably hex tile), walls are white subway tile.
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Unread 12-31-2020, 05:13 PM   #10
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Hey Jennifer,

I recently went through the whole linear drain saga and came to the conclusion it was:
1. crazy expensive relative to standard Schulter or USG drain. ($500-1000 )
2. not easy to configure for the application (size, location, bonding the drain to other water proofing materials). This includes the infinity drain USG was pushing online (which was not made by USG). Since they are no longer in this market I’ve no idea what’s available.
3. Visually pretty cool, but otherwise really adds nothing to the shower experience.

I ended up going with the standard USG circular drain in the middle of the shower for both showers I’m currently working.. I honestly don’t think anybody who buys my house in the future will be any less excited about a curb less shower because it has a standard drain. I know Mrs. PC doesn’t. I will probably be much happier because I don’t have to worry about the fabric bonding releasing from the metal linear drain which has been an issue for several of the manufacturers.

Just my opinion, good luck!
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Unread 01-04-2021, 12:26 PM   #11
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Jennifer's Basement Shower, Drain Either Linear or Standard

Oh I thought I had it all figured out, but you are making me second guess!

The reason for going with a linear drain was partly to make the drain placement not look odd and partly because we are a bit eager for the simple sloping of the mud pan. We've been high centered on the project thinking about options that involve sloping to that uncentered drain.

However, this is a basement bathroom in a 1984 1600sf split level in the "worst neighborhood in (the smaller) town." So honestly it doesn't have to be perfect on design to be a really big upgrade to the house. An offcentered circle or square drain will look plenty fine, and at this price point won't be a detraction if we ever sell (assuming work is done quality). So that answers that part of my question.



However, I am still nervous about how easy/well it would be to do a standard drain on our shower plan layout. The drain is the dot. It will cost $2k to move it, so that is out of the question (as using the kerdiline drain and kerdi would be significantly cheaper, if we cared about looks that much.)


The edges of the pan have to be level with each other, right? So, some of my slopes will be at a greater angle than others. Is this a huge issue, with regards to the particular placement of my drain?
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Unread 01-07-2021, 09:00 PM   #12
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Hi Jenn / sorry I missed your response.

The slopes don’t have to match, it just complicates the tile setting slightly.

Moving a drain is a pretty simple process and cannot fathom how that would cost 2k. I’d think it would be in the area of $400-600
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Unread 01-07-2021, 11:51 PM   #13
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I used a schluter linear drain in my steam shower and I would go circular if I did it again. Why, because cost. I think mine was near 58" size and I think it cost a good 850$ for the drain base and grate and that was online at the lowest price I found. It is very critical to get it level. I was disappointed with how it drains. Not how the tile drains into the drain but how little slope there is in the drain body itself. All this talk of 1/4" per foot but it is almost zero slope from the ends to the center of these drain bodies. So water sits there and can get moldy. It does look cool and it allowed me to use big 24" tiles in two rows sloping to the drain. So only 8 tiles on the floor plus two end pieces. I did chip out my drain to center it. I have a bulldog small jack hammer drill tool. The spike but works best. Luckily my drain had been moved before and the patch was soft so it chipped out like butter. My fill was sand so it was easy to dig out 3-4 buckets and move the drain just 10". But in another drain area it was virgin slab and it was hard as a rock. It took me 3 hard hours of chipping to get 24" of a 4" pipe exposed for a kitchen sink tie in. I also had to chip around a toilet drain to out a coupler in and raise it. I could see where you might need a diamond saw guy. I would get more prices on the demo and do the plumbing yourself and it's easy to back fill and pour a patch. A drain so off center like yours will really have different slopes. However if it all looks good will anyone not buy a house because if that? No.
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Unread 01-08-2021, 11:15 AM   #14
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It would be 2k if I had to drive out there from Kansas to do it but I can't see how a guy would charge you that much in if they were in town, sounds like someone is trying to make their week on just your job. Home depot (my market) will rent you a concrete saw for $75/day and a midsize breaker for $100/day and the biggest one for $117/day don't waste your tile with the small chipping hammer if you want to go that route buy one from harbor freight for $100.00 and use it to mix your thinset. But you will be in there for 3 hours like Elkski. You could do all this yourself start to finish for less than $500.00
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Unread 01-08-2021, 01:12 PM   #15
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yes i was under gunned because i was chipping next to the footer and it was like 6" thick with lots of large gravel in it and 20 years old. But once I started it was easier to just finish rather than go rent a big hammer.
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