pool tile questions

[mcmike4817]

I have an in ground gunite pool with bull nose stone coping and a two row 3” tile border at the upper edge of the walls of the pool just under the stone coping. At one end of the pool there is no coping just a flat surface about 1’ wide the entire width of the pool. The reason for no coping is that an automatic cover housing and mechanism is located at that end of the pool. On that flat surface is the same 3” tile (4 rows). The problem I’m having is the tile at that end of the pool (both the horizontal tile and wall tile) keep coming lose and falling off. This doesn’t happen anywhere else on the pool. I’ll post pictures later. The tile installer grouted the space at the edge of the pool where the horizontal tile meets the wall tile. There is also a crack at the rear of the wall between the cement surrounding the automatic cover housing and the pool wall. Can these two things be causing the tile to come loose? Should the tile installer have caulked the space between the wall tile and the horizontal tile and also caulked the back edge of the horizontal tile? I’m going to replace the tile myself. Can I use the old tile; none of it is cracked or broken? Should the back of the tile be cleaned of any old thinset? What kind of thinset and grout should I use? By the way, I live in Michigan (freeze and thaw weather). I would really like this to not happen again for a long time any suggestions?

[mcmike4817]

I posted some pictures to the first post to help visualize my problem. Any suggestions?

[Davy]

Hi Mike, you can reuse the old tiles but the thinset needs to be cleaned off the backs. A pair od tile nippers works well to nip off the old grout. A grinder with a 4 inch blade will cut off the thinset without a problem. The thinset also needs to come off the cement.

Most likely the movement within the crack is causing the tiles to come loose. I don't know if it will work but I might would try to leave the tiles unstuck in the back, on the small area on the other side of the crack. Just letting that small area float might keep the pressure off the tiles. Silicone that joint.

Maybe someone else has a better idea.

[mcmike4817]

what about the front edge where the horizontal tile meet the wall tile ( the change of plane) should that be a sand caulk seam or grout? As you can see in the fourth picture the tile is coming off at that edge. I'm sure it all has to do with grout cracking and water getting into the crack and the freezing and thawing of the water that get into the crack causing the tile to break off. I think I have to make sure that no water can get behind the tile.

[Davy]

Well, most pool guys would grout that joint. Moisture finds it's way in, you don't want the caulk holding it in. I would grout it, I doubt that one joint will make or break the installation.

[mcmike4817]

Would movement in the crack also cause the tiles a long the wall to come loose or just the tiles on the horizontal surface?

[kerdibird]

I'd say the movement is from the draining and refilling of your pool coupled with ground movement from feezethaw cycles and settlement of the area. Your best idea would be to allow for movement in the crack zone essentially treating it as an expansion joint. The movement from the latter if ignored would lead to the same tile failure you see in the pictures. If the separation continues in a fairly straight line then using tile of different sizes together you could create an attractive solution that would place that joint within the tile layout.

[ceramictec]

I agree with Art on this.

seems like movement and some water/freezing made this tile fail over time.