Butyl Rubber Shower Membrane?

[jmedgar]

Why not butyl rubber?

As a long-time carpenter, now general contractor/remodeler, rather than a tile/stone expert, I am curious why I never hear of butyl rubber used as a shower membrane.

The standard seems to be CPE or PVC membranes. Why not butyl rubber? We use it for everything from roofing to garden pond lining. It's certainly waterproof, resists deterioration in adverse climates for very long periods, and is more resistant than PVC to puncture by rough handling during installation (I don't know about CPE, I don't think I've ever used it).

Why not butyl rubber as a shower liner?

Thanks in advance.

[cx]

Welcome, Jim.

I dunno.

Likely the manufacturers didn't see a market worthy of the cost of the testing and approval and such?

I'm gonna move you over to our Professional's Hangout where we like to kick stuff like that around.

CX

[jmedgar]

I have just discovered this forum. What a great idea! I had no idea so many tile/stone guys (and gals) could read.

Seriously, here is the URL of a pdf article on the design and fabrication of curbless showers that might be a suitable addition to your library.

http://www.design.ncsu.edu:8120/cud/...s/Curbless.pdf

Regards,

[chukar8]

could it be that the alkalinity of the motar would break it down??????

[jmedgar]

I don't think alkaline will harm rubber. A great many of both the coatings and undercoatings used on butyl rubber roofs contain bases similar to alkaline. Ponds are frequently alkaline - although its not too good for the fish. But the rubber in ponds is still felxible and waterproof after years of Summer/Winter, freeze and thaw.

[MHI]

I think it boils down to how long will it last. Rubber roofing materials have a shorter life than pvc or cpe.

Pvc could easily last 100 years, and cpe may last longer. Roofing materials are good for 20 to 40 years at best. Does it matter to the average person? No, but I know I wouldn't want to do all that tile work over some experimental pan liner.

If a pond leaks, who cares. If the shower leaks, its a problem.

[Scooter]

I really have to trust the manufacturers--if butyl rubber was so great, so cheap, and so long lasting, why wouldn't someone be advertising and warranting its use for showers?

I'm not going to take a chance on any product that is not put out specifically for tile, does not have a performance history, and is not warranted by the maker for that application. Not me, nosiree.

[chukar8]

I know that SBR adhesive are broken down by alkalinity in a wet slab, kinda seems the same thing could happen to that kind of liner??

[marc f]

I had the opportunity of working on the Seahawk Stadium , now Qwest Field. We poured a sub-slab and then the hole place was coated with a butyl -rubber product. A protection board was placed over that and a another slab was poured on top.

[Chris the Rep]

Butyl has never been used as a membrane because it is too soft and it never cures. It also has no "memory", if it gets dented or deformed, it stays that way. Butyl is also oily, bonding to it is a nightmare.

SBR's are still used as admixes in concrete and mortar to this day. The two grandaddys of admixes for installing tile, Laticrete 4237 and 3701 are SBR based. They are, however, UV sensitive, and will yellow.

Chris

[chukar8]

Thanks chris!!!

[John Bridge]

Hi Jim,

Who told you tile setters can read? We all have secretaries that do that for us.