My First Bathroom Remodel (with pics)

[RifRaf]

Originally Posted by ss3964spd

Wutcha gonna put on that plywood floor as a tile backer?

I purchased some NobleSeal CIS. I currently have the backer un-rolled and laying flat to remove any curls prior to installation.


I spoke to a rep at NobleSeal and they recommended using an 1/8" V-notch trowel to apply the thinset that goes underneath the membrane. I also have an 1/8" square notch trowel as a back-up... just in case the V-notch trowel does not apply enough thinset for proper coverage.

Do you have any tips... or suggestions to help with the installation of this backer?

[ss3964spd]

IIRC, I used a 1/8" square notch trowel. It will install just line the membrane I used on my shower floor. Cut the pieces to size first, get all tools lined up, mix your thinset mortar a little loose. Dampen the plywood first to prevent it from pulling the moisture out of the mortar, and don't comb out more mortar than you can cover with membrane before the mortar skins over. A soft rubber grout float will work well for bedding the membrane into the thinset, be careful to avoid air pockets. Smooth it out with the float, but be careful that you don't press so hard that you pull mortar along with it, causing a ridge.

[RifRaf]

Dan, Thanks for all of the tips! I will definitely use them during the installation of this backer.

[RifRaf]

I plugged the shower drain and filled the pan with about 15 gallons of water (enough to cover all of the pan's perimeter seams) and let it sit for 24 hours… and no leaks!!!

While I was performing the flood test, I got a head start and pre-fitted the NobleSeal CIS membrane on the bathroom floor. After I trimmed and fitted the membrane, I laid some tiles on top to flatten the curls prior to final installation.


With the completion of a successful flood test, I am now going to start the tile installation. Before installing any tiles, I plan to cut and pre-fit the shower pan tiles and the bathroom floor tiles so they will be ready to install once I mix up the thinset… but I wanted to ask if the installation plan shown below is the best way to proceed.

My plan is as follows (see reference photo below):

• A – Install the NobleSeal membrane on the bathroom subfloor and let the mortar set-up overnight.
• B – Install the shower floor tiles… and then the bathroom floor tiles (let both set-up overnight).
• A + B: Grout the shower floor… and then the bathroom floor.
• C – Install the shower curb tiles.
• D – Install the shower’s back wall tiles.
• E – Install the shower’s side wall tiles.
• C + D + E: Grout the curb and all of the shower wall tiles.

Final - Caulk all of the tile plane changes


Please let me know if my installation plan is logical… and any advice (or tips) is always appreciated!

[ss3964spd]

Certainly seems like a reasonable plan of attack to me, Mike.

[cx]

Well, I'm not gonna argue about reasonable, but I would never intentionally tile a floor when I had to use that floor for access to tile a shower. Just doesn't make sense to me to take a chance on messing up a brand new tile floor by transiting over it with messy construction materials and work if the option was simply to delay the floor covering until the shower was complete, or at least mostly complete.

Waiting overnight between B and A+B might work our OK for you, depending upon what materials are used, but the industry recommendation is to wait at least 24 hours between that setting and grouting.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[RifRaf]

Dan and CX, Thanks for the feedback!

CX, I fully understand your concerns about tiling the bathroom floor prior to completing the tile installation on the shower. The reason I choose to tile the bathroom floor first was so my shower curb tiles would be installed over the bathroom floor tiles and the caulk used at this transition would be under the curb tiles. I also wanted the shower wall tiles to hang over the curb tiles (for the same ascetic reasons).

Once the bathroom floor is installed and grouted, I plan to cover it with some furniture blankets... and then some Masonite (or plywood) to protect the floor. I know this creates extra work for me... but that's the story of my life.

And thanks for the recommendation on waiting at least 24 hours between tile setting and grouting. I will certainly follow this guideline.

[cx]

I understand the rationale there, Mike. One easy way around that would be to simply not install the curb face tiles until the bathroom floor was tiled after the shower had been finished, or to simply leave space under the installed curb tiles to allow you to fit your floor tiles under them.

Or you can do as you plan and just protect the floor. Different strokes.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[RifRaf]

CX, OK... that makes sense to tile the entire shower first... but leave the curb face tiles uninstalled until after I tile the bathroom floor. Thanks for the advice!
That is certainly doable and diminishes the possibility of me accidentally damaging the new bathroom floor tiles (but does not totally eliminate the possibility due to my inherent clumsiness ).

Now I have some new questions... but they may seem kinda ridiculous (but I'll ask them anyway).

Below is a photo of how the sheets of tile laid out on the shower pan, The red lines represent the seams between the tile sheets and the blue square represents the drain location. In my current layout, the drain is centered between 2 sheets of tiles.


But I have watched several YouTube videos where the drain was centered in one full sheet of tiles... and half sheets were used on the ends (see example below).

• Is one layout better then the other... or it really does not matter (as long as all of the seams/grout joints are consistent)?

The other question I had was related to the application of the thinset for the shower pan tiles. I know I should do directional troweling, but I have seen that some tile installers will "flatten the ridges" after directional troweling because it is supposed to minimize the thinset that could get into the grout joints of smaller tiles.

• Is the practice of flattening the trowel ridges when installing sheets of small tiles recommended?

Once again... thanks for all of the help!!!

[cx]

Matters not at all, Mike, but when possible I try to stagger the sheets somewhat so the sheet lines are not aligned. Not a big deal with the type of tiles you have, but I find it easier to ensure there is no visual sheet line in my layout.

For tiles as large as you have (2"x2"?), I personally do not knock down the mortar ridges before setting. I've come to rely upon my Ditra trowel for setting those tiles, which I've commonly used on shower floors.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[RifRaf]

CX, Yes... the shower floor tiles are 2"x 2" (3/8" thick).
I was planning on using a 1/4" square notch trowel for the shower pan tiles.

Thanks again for your response!

[ss3964spd]

The 1/4" SN trowel will be fine for those 2" X 2" X 3/8" tiles, Mike, is what I used when setting my very similarly sized shower floor tile. Combing the mortar in one direction isn't as critical with those small tiles as there just isn't much chance of trapping air.

Probably needless to say; after placing your first sheet, your subsequent sheets should be placed as closely to their intended position and alignment as possible. Moving them after they are set in mortar will increase the chance of forcing mortar into the joints.

If the grout joint spacers you are using between the sheets fit snugly into the joints within the sheets the seams should be fine.

[RifRaf]

Dan, Thanks for the additional tips! I have some spacers that fit snugly between the small tile joints and will use them to space the sheets.

Originally Posted by CX

I try to stagger the sheets somewhat so the sheet lines are not aligned.

I also took CX's advice and revised my shower floor layout to stagger the sheets (very easy to do... as I only needed to adjust the middle row).

[RifRaf]

I started my attempt at cutting the sheets of 2”x 2” mosaic tiles for the shower floor. Since I only had to remove about 1/4" to 3/8” from one side of each sheet, a manual tile cutter was not working for me… so I purchased a 7" table top tile saw.


It was a bit of a learning experience for me while cutting the sheets of 2”x 2” mosaic tiles while using this saw. When I tried to cut one end of an entire sheet of tiles, the tile backing (the material that holds the individual tiles together on the sheet) was not ridged enough to hold the tiles in line while cutting (grout joints were not stable)… plus the water from the saw seemed to be dissolving the glue that held the tiles onto the backing material. So… I decided to remove a strip of single rows from each sheet that needed to be cut. This worked out much better, but still was not idea.

What worked out best for cutting the 2x2 mosaic tiles on this type of saw was to run some tape along the top side of the tile strips and then puncture the tape with shims that fit into the grout joints. This held the tiles on each strip firmly in place while I cut the tile. I also had to stack some old floor tiles so I could extend the cutting deck of the saw so the strips of tiles would stay flat.


After I got this figured out, I cut all shower floor tiles as need so I could achieve an 1/8” gap between the tiles and the shower walls and curb.


I then proceeded to cut and fit all of the bathroom floor tiles using the same saw (as the manual tile cutter was chipping the finish of the simulated wood grain on these tiles). The tile saw easily managed to cut these tiles with no complications.


Once I confirmed the bathroom floor tile layout fit as planned, I went back and cut the hole for the toilet flange.


I then re-boxed all of the numbered bathroom floor tiles so they would be ready to install once I get to this step.

[Gozo]

Looking good Mike. I’ve been browsing from the background, but thought I’d jump in at this point as I had some issues with the toilet flange area in my floor.

You made a very nice circle cutout (I’m embarrassed to post what mine looks like, but hey, it’s under the toilet). I recommend using one of those PVC pipe to stainless steel toilet flanges. The regular steel was that was in the bathroom pre project had pretty much disintegrated from years of leaky toilet. The damage to the floor was what lead to the whole bathroom project. But I digress….

Anyway, you don’t want the toilet to even think of rocking, so it needs to be firmly bolted to the flange (I used one of the neoprene rings rather than a wax one) and the flange needs to be firmly attached to the floor. Don’t depend in the glue to the drain pipe to do it. Attach the flange to the floor. That means you have to have room through the tile to bolt through. I made keyhole cuts with an angle grinder to accommodate same. Be careful that the grind out aligns with the flange holes while the toilet bolt holes are in alignment with how the toilet will be placed.

And go gentle with embedding the tile in the mortar. I popped a tile when I got a bit overzealous. The grind out does weaken the tile when it’s not cemented in yet.

Just posting as a suggestion so you don’t have to backtrack further down the road.