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Unread 10-05-2012, 08:19 PM   #1
dglex
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Ledgestone veneer install (firebox is too tall)

Hello!

I came home one day and my wife had torn the original cheap mantle off of the wall. She knows how to get me started on a project. Ha!!

So we have a firebox with ventless logs. It was previously surrounded by 6-8" slate all the way around. I tore the slate off of the wall because we were going to replace it with ledgestone veneer.

The firebox extends about 12" above the firebox opening. The metal surface is approximately flush with the drywall.

Can I put the StoneCraft Ledgestone (Lowe's) veneer over this metal surface? Would I simply screw the metal lath directly to this surface and proceed as normal? Or do I have to put a slate stone back on this surface?

I was concerned about thermal expansion. It is also a little unsettling to be completely locking this firebox in place with the veneer. I guess that is normal though.
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Unread 10-06-2012, 12:37 PM   #2
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bump.....
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Unread 10-06-2012, 06:48 PM   #3
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Welcome Darin,

You've got a lot of old wounds to cover, so I'm afraid you'll have to finish tight to the box opening and always have some thermal movement. I'd adhere and fasten .5" CBU on the drywall (might need to get a few screws into the metal as well), which means you'll need to come up with a trim for the board edge. You might be able to get away with a thick mortar joint against the drywall, but on the metal I don't think it would last. A Schluter transition strip would work under the board.

Another option would be to lath and float at least a .5" scratch coat in lieu of CBU.

Locking in the box is kinda unavoidable. If you have your doubts about liking the box for a shorter duration of time than the stone, order extra to tuck back for future purposes. A different lot may not match in 5 years.
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Unread 10-06-2012, 08:06 PM   #4
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Thanks Brad that is very helpful.

I was thinking of pulling off all of the drywall and replacing it with plywood or CBU. But this would leave the CBU flush with the metal surface of the firebox and that's why I was wondering if I could put the metal lath over the firebox.

I hadn't thought about putting CBU on top of the drywall and also covering the upper metal surface of the firebox with CBU. That's a good idea. You are right, I will have to think of how to trim out the edges of the CBU. Thanks for the input!
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Unread 10-07-2012, 08:05 AM   #5
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We used a cultured stone (cement) around our fireplace. We put up roofing felt on the wall, then screwed lath into the wall and the black firebox surround. Over that went a scratch coat and then the stone. It's fine after about 4 years of wood fires. The important thing is to do whatever the maker of your stone recommends.
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Unread 10-17-2012, 06:03 PM   #6
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Mantle Height - should it be determined by Ledgstone thickness?

I am going to bolt an Oak mantle to the wall prior to starting a Stonecraft Ledgstone project.


Should I just mount the mantle at the height that I want and proceed to tiling?

Or do try to figure out exactly how high the rows of ledgestone will stack and place the mantle at that height?

Not sure how to deal with a 'half' row of Ledgestone if the height is messed up. I guess I could rip them with a tile saw as long as it isn't a slim sliver.

Thanks for any input!
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Unread 10-17-2012, 06:43 PM   #7
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Welcome, Darin.

It'll help if you'll keep all your project questions on one thread so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered.

You can install that mantle shelf any way you like, but I do think you should avoid having a "skinny" at the top if you can avoid it. Laying your stones out on the floor with appropriate joints and measuring should allow you to mount the mantle very close to a full row and have it at a suitable height to meet any other requirements.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-17-2012, 07:29 PM   #8
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I noticed I didn't link to the spot where I researched your install...MVMA Installation Guidelines...in case you needed it or didn't have it.

cx, is right. Taking the time to lay it all out and measuring is always the best idea. I know there are different sizes, but I think you will find that they course out on a consistent measurement (24" maybe?).
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Unread 10-17-2012, 08:18 PM   #9
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Could go ventless and use a real fire box. I don't like locking the mortal unit in place. See my thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1376368/la...heater-upgrade
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Unread 12-13-2012, 04:33 PM   #10
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Ok thank you for all of the replies. Here is a pic with the mantle installed. Fortunately there was fantastic wall structure in the right spot so I was able to reach above the fireplace insert and attach with 4 long lag bolts.
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Unread 12-13-2012, 04:36 PM   #11
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Additional structure is added to the wall to support the plywood and plywood is installed.
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Unread 12-13-2012, 05:04 PM   #12
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And finally the metal lathe is in the process of being attached with lathe screws.
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Unread 12-13-2012, 05:09 PM   #13
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So I do have one point that I would appreciate any input.

When we had our gas logs serviced last month, the gentleman that performed the service was also a professional veneer installer. He recommended that we screw on the metal lathe and be sure to cross all gaps between materials with a continuous piece of lathe. So the lathe would be screwed both into the studs and plywood as well as the metal perimeter of the fireplace insert.

I also looked at many professionally installed veneer fireplaces and they all have the veneer covering over the metal edge of the fireplace insert. I was just unable to see that the lathe was actually screwed into the perimeter of the insert.

Does this approach sound ok?
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Unread 12-17-2012, 07:28 PM   #14
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Mortage recommendation for fireplace stone veneer?

Hello, I am installing a Stonecraft Ledgestone 'Adhered Concrete Masonry Veneer' on a fireplace. The install is over a metal lathe that is attached to 1/2" plywood. I would really appreciate input on 2 questions:


1) could someone please recommend a polymer modified mortar that is easily accessible (Lowe's, Home Depot, etc).

2) the scratch coat and install mortar are both the exact same mortar, right?

Thank you so much!



Instructions from the install manual:
Premixed mortars must meet the requirements of ASTM C270 for Type N or Type S. Check with the mortar manufacturer to determine if the premixed mortar is suitable for installation of adhered concrete masonry veneer and it meets building code requirements of 50 psi shear bond when tested in accordance with ASTM C482.

Mortars mixed with higher amounts of sand will tend to be less workable. Mortar mixed with higher amounts of cement will provide a greater bond strength but may be prone to increased dry-shrinkage cracking. Type N mortars are generally easier
to grout with than Type S. For the scratch coat, installation of ACMV, and grouting, Type N or Type S mortar meeting the above requirements are acceptable.

The use of polymer modified mortar designed for the installation of adhered manufactured stone veneer provides benefits beyond traditional ASTM C270 Type S or Type N mortar. The appropriate use of polymer modified mortars, polymer modifiers, or bonding agents provide additional assurance proper bond is achieved.

When considering mortar selections follow the stone manufacturer’s recommendations regarding the use of polymer modified mortar for challenging installations or where increased bond strength is desired. Examples of these installations include, but are not limited to: tight-fit applications, tilt-up construction, direct bond to CMU, or hot weather conditions.

Polymer modified mortar intended for installation of adhered manufactured stone veneer and meeting the requirements of ANSI 118.4 is acceptable. Check with the mortar manufacturer for acceptable use of the mortar. Bond enhancing modifiers or bonding agents, if used, must comply with the requirements of ASTM C1384.

Polymer modified mortars, modifiers, and bonding agents must be used in strict accordance with the mortar or additive manufacturer’s recommendations.
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Unread 12-17-2012, 08:39 PM   #15
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Type S or N mortar is available at HD or Lowes, I think it's labeled as masonry mortar or something like that.

The polymer modified is a different product. Laticrete's is the only one I'm familiar with. You won't find it at your local box store, though. You might find it at a brick yard or tile distributer.
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