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Unread 11-20-2003, 09:44 PM   #1
LadyGodiva
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Any painters in the house?

Hello everyone,

I need some info/advice on painting. We are removing wallpaper and was told that we would have to 'mud' the walls... sounds messy! How many layers do you apply of this stuff? I understand that you have to apply, when dry it must be sanded, apply again, sand... and then cleaned before putting a primer. That's as far as I understood, and I think we can do it .

So here is the question. Is Benjamin Moore really the 'best' paint out there? Premium 1 gallon sells for $40 in my area, and since we are doing it ourselves, I guess that's not bad. what about Sherwin williams? Is it the same quality (for their premium) paint?

I've used Behr paint before, but wasn't impressed..

Thanks.

LG
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Unread 11-20-2003, 10:11 PM   #2
Davy
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Hi LG, Sonnie is the expert painter round here. Hang tight, he'll check in.
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Unread 11-20-2003, 10:15 PM   #3
Clowny
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Consumer Reports

Quote:
Is Benjamin Moore really the 'best' paint out there?

Ratings from Consumer Reports in 9/2003 ->
Top 3 for FLAT PAINT
1 Behr Premium Plus Enamel - A CR Best Buy
2 Benjamin Moore Regal Matte Finish
3 Valspar American Tradition - A CR Best Buy

Top 3 for LOW-LUSTER PAINTS
1 Behr Premium Plus Satin - A CR Best Buy
2 Valspar American Tradition Satin - A CR Best Buy
3 Sears Best Easy Living Lifetime Satin

There are different ratings for different paint finishes - what finish are you using?

Marge
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Unread 11-21-2003, 12:18 AM   #4
LadyGodiva
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Well, it's the kitchen and bathroom (there is a spa in the bathroom) so I'm not sure how that will affect the walls.

They told me I should use a semi-gloss for kitchen and bathrooms, is that correct?
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Unread 11-21-2003, 12:40 AM   #5
clowny's sis
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Hi LG,
I recently removed bathroom wallpaper that had been applied to an unsized, unpainted wall. The backing of the wallpaper was stuck to the wall and there was no way to get if off without destroying the wall. My neighbor's painter was nice enough to come look at it and tell me how to fix it. I had planned to have some sort of textured finish, but I think the basics are the same for a regular flat finish.

He said to prime the wall first with Kilz, ( I used the original, not the latex) then apply a smooth, flat coat of dry wall compound ( I used the topping mix only because some guy at Home Depot suggested it, which is iffy, but it worked fine), sand the imperfections and apply another coat of drywall compound in the texture I wanted, then sand and clean and prime and paint. Worked fine. I used Sears 20-year Kitchen Bath and Trim paint.

I did a second bathroom but thought I would skip the second coat of drywall compound and had a few areas that cracked. I was doing a heavier texture, and may have gotten carried away and applied too thick of a coating in places. I would suggest staying with the 2 coats.

I've used lots of Sears Best Easy Living Lifetime paint and have had no problems with it. It goes on sale a lot, too, so it's economical and is my first choice anymore. I've also used Sherwin Williams, Ralph Lauren, and Martha Stewart among others. (I've moved a lot and have had plenty of rooms to paint.)
Good luck with your project!
Jackie
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Unread 11-21-2003, 08:43 AM   #6
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More from Consumer Reports

Good Morning LG,
Yes it is recommended to use Semi-Gloss in those areas. Like my sister, much of my painting has been done using Sears Best and I have had no issues. Well, it does suffer from "sticking" mentioned below.

Since I left off Semigloss last night, here is what CR says:
SEMIGLOSS
The shiniest this side of high-gloss.
Best for kitchen and bathroom walls or for trim. Easy to clean.
On the downside Semigloss paints can suffer from "sticking," the condition that makes a flower pot get stuck on a painted windowsill. The finish may not be as glossy as you’d like. Check our Ratings
CR Semigloss Ratings September 2003 :
1 Behr Premium Plus (Home Depot) A CR Best Buy
2 Dunn-Edwards Permasheen
3 Valspar American Tradition (Lowe's)
4 Sears Best Easy Living Lifetime
5 Glidden Evermore
6 Ralph Lauren Premium
7 Dutch Boy Home (Wal-Mart) -A CR Best Buy

CR Semigloss Ratings July 2002 :
1 Valspar American Tradition Semi-Gloss A CR BEST BUY
2 Sears Best Easy Living Lifetime Semi-Gloss
3 Ralph Lauren Premium Semi-Gloss
4 Behr Premium Plus Semi-Gloss (Home Depot)
5 Dutch Boy Dura-Clean Kitchen & Bath Semi-Gloss (Menards)
6 California 2010 100% Acrylic Latex Semi-Gloss
7 Martha Stewart Everyday Colors Semi-Gloss
8 Olympic Premium Semi-Gloss
9 Dutch Boy Dirt Fighter Semi-Gloss
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Unread 11-21-2003, 09:15 AM   #7
tileguytodd
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I Used to sell Valspar paint,thier top of the line was very good.All the pro's up here use Pratt and Lampbert with few exceptions.those few use benjamin moore.
For Marine Paint,Valspar cant be beat.They are one of the largest manufacturers of paint in the world.They private label many Major Brands.Ive learned 1 thing over the years about paint.If you buy the best from any company(exceptions occur) you will ussually get your moneys worth.Several other quality paint Brands come to mind.Ace hardware has a good line.Hardware hank has a good line.Sherwin Williams has a good line. good luck lady!!
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Unread 11-21-2003, 09:17 AM   #8
Sonnie Layne
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Paper backing from wallpaper can be left on, but must be treated correctly. First, I'd identify any loose areas that aren't apparent by mopping the walls with warm water and a 1/2" nap roller. This will get some of the backing to lift, and you can peel it further. Finally, use a product called Gardz. Made by the Zinsser family (who makes Kilz). It's made for this specific task and to repair torn drywall paper prior to finishing. It'll dry hard and crisp, you can even sand it with a bit of 80 or 100 grit drywall paper/pads.

Now you'll have a tough surface to skim coat your "mud". If you can get the texture/topping compound instead of the joint compound, good. Thin it out with a bit of water. Instead of the consistency of peanut butter, you're looking for Mayonaisse. Apply it with a 12" knife. It is exactly what we call it..... a "skim" coat. Just enough to fill the voids and the clefts left from removing pieces of paper. I rarely use sandpaper when I do this kind of work... too much work to clean up. Instead, I use stiff sponges, like you'd use to clean grout on a tile project. First, push your knife against any ridges and knock them down. Work with the sponges fairly wet, swirl them around the surface and you'll see the texture start to thin out and get the finish the way you like it. Rinse frequently, you'll find it happens a lot faster.

After that, prime with an oil based primer (Benjamin Moore has QD-30). Then finish with whatever you want.

Working with SemiGloss is tricky enough for a pro, not all pro's can pull it off. Aside from that, the higher the sheen level, the more descrepencies are going to show up from the wall. It's not absolutely necessary to use paint with a sheen. At one time, you couldn't easily clean flat acrylic wall paints, but the high end guys nowdays clean up just fine (after 60 days). An eggshell or pearl finish is pretty cool. You can always paint it flat, and increase the sheen level with glazing or urethanes.

I use mostly Ben. Moore products. One S/W product I like is their A100 exterior alkyd primer. Main reason for B/M is I always get consistency with BM's products. Always. Secondly, I can get it Nationwide. Thirdly, my local BM paint store has absolutely the best educated/practiced staff I've ever seen anywhere. Finally, the times when I've really had to have severe technical advice to the point I called the manufacturing plant to speak with a chemist? BM was the only one that even returned a call.

Anyway, there's my nickel I'll be around if you need more help, but won't be back until tonight. You can ring me, number's at my website www.sonnielayne.com
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Unread 11-21-2003, 09:40 AM   #9
LadyGodiva
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Good morning all,

Thanks for all the tips and advice about paints. I really appreciate the time and effort.

I've already stripped.... the walls (dirty minds) , and the backing came off easier than I thought. There are some knicks and little holes left. My husband picked up some 'joint compound' (I'm assuming it's the mud thing).

Trust me, I'll be following every tip here for applying this stuff, and will report my success (a bit of optimism never hurt)!

Have a wonderful day, and feel free to add anything that I might need to know. I love learning .

LG
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Unread 11-23-2003, 07:48 AM   #10
drew
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Stripping wallpaper, yucky job, not so bad over plaster, but a real bear over drywall usually. I normally recommend covering the junk up with fresh drywall, tape, finish, and paint. I can have all the board up in an average size room alot faster than I can strip wallpaper. Tried the hot water tip and the release agents that are sold at wallpaper stores, they make things a bit more palatable, but still I know I can produce a better finished wall over new board in half the time. And time is $$ !!
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Unread 11-23-2003, 12:52 PM   #11
Sonnie Layne
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Drew, does that include removing and reinstalling/milling new trim or do you rock up to the existing mouldings?
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Unread 11-24-2003, 06:16 AM   #12
drew
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We generally remove the old woodwork and replace it with new, unless it's some really ornate stuff that's actually worth keeping. Usually the stuff you'd want to keep has like 1/4" build up of old finishes on it, so it's all gotta be stripped & refinished anyway, which of course adds to the overall cost of the project.

I did a couple of houses that were rentals & the owner didn't want to mess with trim, both of them had just had all of it freshly & messily painted, whoever did it never heard of masking tape I guess. Anyway on those we used vinyl j-bead on the drywall where it met casings, baseboards, and the suspended lid.

In both cases use alot of glue, to help level out the walls, which aren't the straightest in most older places and ensure fasteners are long enough to hit the studs.
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Unread 12-06-2003, 12:30 AM   #13
goneriding
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I'll vouch for semi-gloss showing every imperfection! I just finished painting my kitchen cabinets, I really put the effort in with sand, prime, sand, paint, sand, paint. The lowers are a medium grayish blue and look fantastic, the uppers are a deep red and every imperfection shows. Dang! The more I mess with them at this point the worse they get, so I just have to keep the lights low and hope no one else shares my sharp eyes and picky nature. Of course this was all brush painting on wood, it is easier to do a good job with a roller on a wall.
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Unread 12-06-2003, 02:17 PM   #14
Sonnie Layne
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gone... if I could talk you into alkyd paints, I could give you a few tips and you'd never be ashamed of a brushed finish. Before you tackle that again, contact me. Acrylic paints are less forgiving, but technology is getting us there slowly, surely.
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Unread 12-07-2003, 08:33 PM   #15
goneriding
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Alkyds are scary... I partly stayed away from them because the house is all shut up for winter and they have more odor. Also because I hate the clean up But you've peaked my interest, before I paint more wood I'll look into that. I'm going to paint the mouldings in my basement, think I should do oil there?
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