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Unread 05-15-2009, 10:44 AM   #1
Markinbama
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Newbie projects

Hi everyone. I am five months into a brutal home renovation project. Contractor problems, cost overruns, the discovery of thousands of dollars in foundation damage and a shower stall devoured by carpenter ants are among the highlights.
I am now in a position where I am taking on projects with no professional help and need to get out as cheaply as possible. I realize that is a dangerous combination but unfortunately that is where I find myself. Advice and criticism would be greatly appreciated.
I have completed the first bath with help from my brother and am now demolishing the second and will take it on alone. Renovating the first bath wasn't in the budget. I cut out a small piece of moldy greenboard for the sheetrock guy to replace and found water had leaked through a tiny crack in the curb and soaked the wood. Most the 2 x 4s at the base of the shower were soaked and tunneled by the ants. Having been told treated lumber was code and insect resistant I replaced all of the 2 x4s with treated lumber. Is this a ticking time bomb?
I placed insulation ( I did not cut slits in it) on the three walls (one is an outside wall) and secured 15 pound tar paper to the studs with roofing tacks. I covered this with 1/2 inch PermaBase using Hardie screws, taped the seams with sheetrock tape and covered those with C Cure M-Bond Ultra thinset.
I put up Formigres brand ceramic tile using the thinset, quarter-inch spacers and a notched trowel. I followed drying time directions by a factor of about 2. I grouted with a sanded grout with a brand name I do not recall. I sealed with a Dupont product.
The pan was done by a contractor using C Cure Floor float and the gray (pvc?) liner available at hardware stores. It does not have a pre-slope, and it appears to me that may be a common practice here.
The floor is 1/4 inch Hardie board over a 1970s plywood subfloor in decent shape. I used Mapei brand premixed thinset and Hardie screws. The tile is Marazzi brand porcelain.
So, I ended up with some unlevel tiles and crooked grout lines but overall I can live with it.
Next, I will move on to a shower enclosure and floor in the second bath. I have questions about that and am unsure if I should start a second thread or continue here?
Thanks in advance for any help, wish I had found this forum before I got started.
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Unread 05-15-2009, 11:33 AM   #2
ATLdrew
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pre-mix in wet areas. ruh-roh.

that will be an area to watch closely.
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Unread 05-15-2009, 12:07 PM   #3
Dave Taylor
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Mark asked:............

Quote:
I replaced all of the 2 x4s with treated lumber. Is this a ticking time bomb?
Yes.

Additional ticking time bombs are:
Quote:
-I- taped the seams with sheetrock tape
and......

Quote:
[The shower pan] does not have a pre-slope
and.....

Quote:
I used Mapei brand premixed thinset and Hardie screws. The tile is .... porcelain.
It will be informative for you to continue your second shower thread by just adding it to this one post, Mark. That will give us all some background idea of where your coming from (shower construction wise) and where you are at.

Thanks
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Unread 05-15-2009, 12:28 PM   #4
RedRock
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Hello and welcome to the forum. If you get a minute, please edit your profile and put a first name (or whatever you want us to call you) in the signature line.

First off, sorry about the hardships on your house, sometimes they are just a roll of the dice and hope you get lucky. I would suggest not taking shortcuts on critical components of your house - structure, electrical, plumbing. A shower is part of the plumbing system.

So, here's my 2 cents.

Quote:
taped the seams with sheetrock tape and covered those with C Cure M-Bond Ultra thinset.
I hope this was not paper tape. You need to use an alkali resistant mesh tape. Sheetrock mesh tape is not and the caustic nature of thinset will eventually erode it. The end result could be cracked tile or grout and water seeping through there. Ante up and roll the dice.

Quote:
The pan ... does not have a pre-slope, and it appears to me that may be a common practice here.
Common does not make it right. Without a slope underneath that liner, where will the water go ... no where. It will puddle up, stagnate, discolor the grout, and probably end up with mold issues. It would be like not sloping the waste line from the toilet. Eventually all that s*&% piles up cuz there is no place for it to go. Hopefully, the contractor did not puncture the liner below the water line with staples or screws. You can take your chances by leaving it there but its another roll of the dice.

Quote:
I used Mapei brand premixed thinset (on floor)
Not a very good choice of thinset for a floor. There are plenty of horror stories around here of diy'ers using this stuff and having problems later. Roll again. Typically that stuff would be used on a wall in a dry area.

Do you have any specific questions? Fire away, there's more opinions around here to help you out.
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Unread 05-15-2009, 02:12 PM   #5
Markinbama
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The first question I have on the second bath regards getting the tile over the flange or lip on the tub. I am replacing the 60-inch old tub with a new one of the same size. The enclosure was built to accommodate much thicker mortar so the studs are about 3/4 of an inch from the edge of the of the tub. Add shims or plywood maybe?
I understand the differences in tape now. After I tape the seams what should I seal them with?
Thanks guys.
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Unread 05-15-2009, 03:14 PM   #6
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Fur out the studs with strips of wood or plywood.

The CBU tape is secured with thinset. You can do that as you tile.

Have you found the Shower Construction Thread in the Liberry? Lots of good reading.
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Unread 05-17-2009, 07:27 PM   #7
Markinbama
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Here are some pics of the finished first bath and a possible problem in the second bath.
I have finished tearing out the greenboard, mesh, mortar and tile from the surround in the second bath. I realize this is not an electrician's forum, but I gotta figure that wire should not have been running between the greenboard and insulation. The rubber is kind of deteriorating onto the insulation. It runs straight out to an outside flood light.
Once the tub is out I suppose I could reroute it through the attic and down the wall under the insulation? At least then most of the wire would be in a dryer area?
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Unread 05-19-2009, 08:18 AM   #8
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I am now looking for some ideas on advice to give my sheetrock guy on joining the board I put up in the surround to the board he puts up in the rest of the bath.
I plan on ending the cbu on studs located at about the halfway point of the side of the tub and hiding the line between the boards with the shower door and trim above. I plan on tiling up to the frame of the shower door and using caulk instead of grout for the grout line between the last row of tile and the shower door frame.
Advice?
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Unread 05-19-2009, 09:09 AM   #9
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As long as you use backerboard in the wet area (inside the shower door), you're fine. If you wanted to continue the backerboard through the door opening, the sheet rock guys can make a backerboard-to-drywall joint in the dry area. Backerboard can be skim coated with drywall compound and painted to match the drywall.
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Unread 05-19-2009, 09:36 AM   #10
Markinbama
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Thanks, Bob. I had no idea it could be skim coated. Now, if I can just find a good sheetrock man.
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Unread 05-20-2009, 07:21 AM   #11
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I looked at some Schluter finishing products yesterday and thought they were neat, particularly perimeter joints and inside corner joints. Nothing in my house is square or plumb and I am not good at getting it that way. I wonder if a tall corner joint in a surround would just look horrible if it isn't perfectly straight?
Also seeking other sources for this material and people's opinions on using them?
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Unread 05-26-2009, 01:56 PM   #12
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I am considering tiling the narrow wall next to the vanity in the second bath from the sidesplash to the ceiling now. I had considered using cherry blossom marble and was going to trim it using the Schulter stainless steel trim. The marble is 3/8 and the opening in the trim is 3/8, so obviously thinset is out.
Is there an adhesive that would go on thin and work in this situation?
The rock will be new 1/2 inch Densarmor Plus.
If something will work, should I prime the walls first? I have Killz and Guardz on hand.
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Unread 05-27-2009, 04:21 AM   #13
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Any glue or construction adhesive you find will have some thickness. But more importantly, these may stain your marble. Stick with a modified thinset and use the smallest notch trowel you can that will allow 80%, or so, coverage.
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Unread 05-28-2009, 03:16 PM   #14
Markinbama
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Thanks again, Mr. Moderator Man. I have decided I really want to use the steel Schluter trim around the tile and sink a recessed aluminum shelf in the middle of the wall. I think it will look great, so I have decided to use the same ceramic tile on the wall that I use for my floor border.
That being said, I believe I have read here it is ok to put thinset directly on onto Densarmor Plus. But I still am wondering if I should prime the board first?
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Unread 05-30-2009, 07:57 PM   #15
Markinbama
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So, I am hoping to put in a tub in tomorrow. The directions call for a roofing nail or drywall screw to be attached just above the flange with the edge catching the flange.
Is this going to put a lump under the backerboard when I hang it?
Also, I had planned to tile up to the tub and use sanded caulk rather than grout between the last tile and the tub.
How wide should this caulk line be? Should it be the same width where the wall tiles will meet the shower door frame?
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