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Old 09-16-2008, 01:51 PM   #16
noaloha
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cx,

I just drove to every place that sells lumber in my local area and I can't find any AC or BC Exposure 1, plug-faced plywood. The best I could find was AC and BC Exterior
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Old 09-16-2008, 02:07 PM   #17
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Dereck, first of al there is no such thing as AC or BC Exposure 1. You'll get old, like cx, looking for that stuff. Secondly, Exposure 1 is the VERY thing you want to avoid.

On the other hand, AC or BC Exterior is the best. Git that now, before someone else does.

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Old 09-16-2008, 02:58 PM   #18
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Thanks for the clarification, Mike. That's good to know. I'll pick some up on the way home. I was confused by the Nielsen-Woeste publication on underlayment that recommends "Exposure 1, plugged-face plywood". The AC/BC plywood that I found this afternoon felt much stiffer than the Exposure 1 stuff I got this morning.
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Old 09-16-2008, 03:30 PM   #19
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Mike and I hardly ever disagree on plywood, but Exposure 1 is perfectly acceptable for any of your subflooring applications as far as I'm concerned.

What you got against Exposure 1, Mike?
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Old 09-16-2008, 04:25 PM   #20
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Here's an APA Plywood Design guide with a table spanning pages 12 and 13 of the various grades available. APA Design guide

Note the D grade veneers with the Exposure 1 panels. The only Exposure 1 panel with C or better grades is also labeled Structural 1. Supposedly it's out there but I've never seen it.
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Old 09-29-2008, 01:31 PM   #21
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I picked up some BC Exterior and put it down as recommended. The floor feels mighty solid now. The plumber installed the drain and I've floated the pre-slope for the CPE shower liner. Some articles I've read recommend putting 15# roofing felt under the liner. Is this necessary, and if so, can I used 4-mil poly instead? I can't justify buying an entire roll of roofing felt just for 9 sqft when I've got plenty of poly lying around and I'm over budget
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Old 09-29-2008, 01:34 PM   #22
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No need for anything between the preslope and the liner.
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Old 10-17-2008, 08:01 AM   #23
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Things have been moving right along. I've installed and tested the shower liner. The plasterers finished installing the walls earlier this week and now it's time to put down some tile. Since we're putting radiant heat cable down we'll need to pour SLC over it. I've had no luck finding LevelQuik ES which seems to be the SLC of choice in the forum. I have found LevelQuik RS at Home Depot, but I don't feel comfortable using it given how fast it sets. I've also not been able to locate any plastic lath locally or online. Duralath doesn't appear to be produced anymore and I haven't had luck finding Maplelath either.

Does anyone know where I might be able to find these items in the Boston area? What do people use these days when pouring SLC over radiant heat cable?
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Old 10-18-2008, 08:58 AM   #24
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I had another thought: does anyone know of a self-leveling compound that doesn't require the use of lath when pouring over plywood? The manufacturer's documentation indicates that such a thing exists, but they don't mention any brands specifically.

Are there any alternatives that a weekend warrior like me might be able to use? For instance, leveling the floor before I put the cable down so that I could use metal lath (would probably result in a thicker floor)? The product documentation says you can put thinset directly over the cable. This sounds difficult, and I'm not sure whether or not it would still require putting down lath.
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Old 10-18-2008, 08:21 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek
For instance, leveling the floor before I put the cable down so that I could use metal lath (would probably result in a thicker floor)? The product documentation says you can put thinset directly over the cable.
Not sure I unnerstan that question.

Neither the tile nor the heating system care if your floor is level. If your floor is so out of level that it bothers you, you'll need to fix that before you install any heating system or tiling substrate, anyway.

If your SLC manufacturer requires metal lath for your installation, I don't know why you couldn't just install that before your heating wires if you want. I think those wires are sufficiently insulated as not to care if you got metal lath under them. Might wanna consult the heating system mfr. on that, though.

I'm not a SLC guy, but I don't recall anyone hereabouts talking about any that don't require the lath over wood subfloors. Certainly could be some out there of which I'm unaware, though.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 10-18-2008, 11:07 PM   #26
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Quote:
Not sure I unnerstan that question.
CX, to clarify, I was asking is if I could put down metal lath and pour a first layer of SLC and let it dry. Then I would install the radiant heat cable on top of that concrete which (according to the directions) would not require any lath. Once the cable is installed over the first layer of SLC I'd prime and pour a second layer of SLC to cover the cable.

I don't think I'll need to do that though. Today I found a Home Depot that claims they can order LevelQuik ES and I found another shop that can order Mapelath. It'll take two weeks to order, but I guess I can do other stuff () in the meantime.
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Old 10-25-2008, 09:14 AM   #27
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The Mapelath didn't pan out, so I'm back to plan B: put down metal lath and a layer of SLC before installing my radiant heat cable. In tileguytodd's Liberry article about SLC over electric radiant heat, the pics indicate that using a regular stapler to put down the lath. However, the instructions for every SLC I've read say to use industrial stregth staples that require an expensive, powered staple gun. Can I get by using regular or stainless steel staples (3/8-1/2") with a non-powered type stapler to attach my lath to the floor?
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Old 11-11-2008, 10:50 AM   #28
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Question Questions about Ditra installation

So the floor is coming along nicely. I decided to play it safe and use nails to secure the lath. The manufacture said "no" to putting the cable directly over the metal lath so I went with the approach I described above. The first layer has been poured (LevelQuik ES is amazing stuff) and the heating cable has been installed (I should have pics soon). We're pouring the second layer tonight. I've got some questions regarding the next steps:

1) How long do I need to wait for the floor to cure before I can install the Ditra and Kerdi band? The Ditra guide says to wait until residual moisture is 2.0% or less in the floor (it states gypsum concrete, not sure if LevelQuik ES is gypsum-based). How do I measure that? Or is there some amount of time I can wait safely before installing the Ditra?

2) The Ditra guide says I should use unmodified thin-set above and below the Ditra. I'm following the procedure for Wood substrate with a thin slab (D-RHTS-08). There seems to be lots of controversy on web about when to use modified/unmodified with Ditra. What do you recommend?

Thanks again!
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Old 11-11-2008, 11:14 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek
How long do I need to wait for the floor to cure before I can install the Ditra and Kerdi band?
That will be in Custom's data for their product, Derek.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek
There seems to be lots of controversy on web about when to use modified/unmodified with Ditra. What do you recommend?
I'd recommend you follow the manufacturer's recommendations as published in the Ditra installation guide.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 11-11-2008, 11:14 AM   #30
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1) SLC is not gypsum concrete. If your SLC is hard, you can install Ditra.

2) Schluter wants you to install Ditra with a thinset suitable for the substrate. Your substrate is SLC, so an un-modified thinset is called for.

The controversy boils down to this: Schluter thinks that modified thinsets need more air to dry than would be available between an impervious membrane and and impervious tile or substrate. Un-modifed thinsets can cure under water, so they don't need air. Modified thinsets need some air, so drying times are extended under larger tiles where the only air comes from the grout lines.
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