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Unread 09-18-2021, 07:38 AM   #46
ss3964spd
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You do have it right, Steve. Screw down all those planks first though, not just the patches. If you have any planks that have their ends meet over a joist you might consider pre-drilling and even count-sinking those for the screws, or the ends will likely split, rendering the screw ineffective.
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Unread 09-19-2021, 01:14 PM   #47
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Roger that, done and done.

On to the underlayment layer… I’m seeing now that I have 3/4” - 1” of space between the underside of the toilet flange and the top side of the underlayment. The floor is contributing about 1/8”, the flange itself about 1/8”. I’m reading that such an out-of-level condition is workable, I really hope so because I don’t want to mess with this old cast iron.

But this is probably a little tighter than ideal for the deck mud… I assume do what it takes to get the 3/4” minimum deck mud layer and if the closet flange is a little recessed into the finished tile, that will be okay. The flange itself is almost 3/8” thick so that gives me a little breathing room. If I should rethink that, I’m all ears.
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Unread 09-25-2021, 10:32 AM   #48
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So the toilet flange is the high spot of the floor, which I suppose is a good thing given that it will just about accommodate a 3/4" thick mud layer.

On the entry to the room, the floor is almost 1/2" lower, which means the mud base will be 1-1/4" thick there. TCA F145, the non-reinforced mud bed, calls out the minimum 3/4" thickness but not a maximum thickness. The F141 reinforced bed calls out the minimum 1-1/4" and maximum 2" thickness.

With the non-reinforced method, going up to 1-1/4" thick is not going to be a problem, will it?

The mud calculator indicates over 500 lbs of material... just looking for a gut check on that. I'm surprised but I suppose I shouldn't be, it adds up quick! The total area including shower is about 42 sq ft.
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Unread 09-25-2021, 12:59 PM   #49
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I can't find anyplace in the thread indicating that you have ever evaluated your joist structure in this bathroom, Steve. That's been done?

The weight of the new tile installation, including the added subflooring and the mortar bed and tile is part of the dead load on the structure. The usual weights for calculating the joist deflection are 10 pounds per square foot dead and 40 pounds live load. You'll be adding maybe 18 to 20 pounds per square foot with your mortar and tile installation.

If you can put your known figures into our Deflectometer (dark blue bar near top of page), you can get an initial go/no-go reading, but the Deflecto is a rather conservative beast and uses a full 50 pounds live load in its calculations. If your structure passes the Deflecto test, I'd not be concerned about using Method F145 for your tile installation.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-25-2021, 03:51 PM   #50
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Thanks CX. The joists have two spans, the longer span deflection is L/426 based on unknown wood in good condition, so I'm confident in it passing the test. I'll proceed with F145, after refreshing myself on a few videos and some more light reading of course.
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Unread 09-25-2021, 06:02 PM   #51
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Am I barking up the wrong tree if I'm thinking of using float strips for the non-shower floor, in this small of a room? Or am I well advised to pick up a few 1/4" by 1-1/2" pressure treated pine lath strips? That's what I'm seeing available at the local orange box anyway, and seems closest to what's recommended in some discussions I've come across.
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Unread 09-26-2021, 07:48 AM   #52
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Probably depends on your experience, Steve. Having no experience floating a floor of any size I'd reach for all the aid I could.

1/4X1.5 PT lath wouldn't be my choice though, almost no chance they would be straight enough. Pretty sure I've seen a PVC equivalent at my BOB, yours may have the same. Maybe some nominal 1X2 material would work, long as it's straight.
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Unread 09-26-2021, 12:56 PM   #53
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Good call, hadn't considered that. There is an equivalent molding product in PVC, yes, I'll check it out.
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Unread 09-27-2021, 08:07 AM   #54
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There's so much emphasis on what thinset to use with Kerdi.. I haven't thought to ask whether that same thinset is going to work out fine when laying tile over deck mud on the bathroom floor. Any particular concerns there?
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Unread 09-27-2021, 09:18 AM   #55
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I trust you're asking about a thinset mortar, Steve. Thinset is a method, not a material. I would recommend you use a modified thinset mortar meeting ANSI A118.4 for that application. That number will appear on the packaging and say it meets that standard when mixed with water. An un-modified mortar (A118.1) will also work in your application, but the modified will likely be easier to work with.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-09-2021, 10:21 AM   #56
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I floated the shower floor last Sunday. Went okay I think, turned out solid and sloped how it needs to be. The surface isn’t too sandy, but if I brush my hand across it there are particles that let go. I’ve read old threads that suggest this isn’t a bad thing.

In a couple of spots, though, the amount of material that brushed/vacuumed out was around 1/4-inch deep. Photos attached. I really hope this isn’t a redo but am I okay to smooth this out with an application of unmodified thin-set mortar before I install the kerdi membrane? It seems at this point that removing any more material requires pretty vigorous brushing.
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Unread 10-09-2021, 02:22 PM   #57
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Am I crazy or doing it wrong, or are the points in the corners of the Kerdi niche fold template totally uncovered, or with zero overlap? I suppose this is what makes the kereck preforms come in as best practice.
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Unread 10-09-2021, 02:41 PM   #58
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Steve, you need to cut those patterns very carefully and you need to install them very carefully. If that's done, you will find yourself actually kinda stretching the fabric at those corners and will have no actual hole you can see. Is it still a place with no official overlap? Yes. If it bothers you, put a little dab of KerdiFix on that corner as added protection. I do that on my inside corners when I don't use the Schluter pre-made corners, even though I know the corner is not likely to leak. See post 63 here for a look at a dry-folded piece of a similar membrane holding water with no help at all. It's not at all intuitive, but I assure you we've done it lots of times with Kerdi. It actually works.

In the particular location you show, there is no real active force of liquid water trying to get in that corner, but it's still important that it be sealed. If your corner doesn't appear water-tight to you, use some pookey to help with that.

I can say from experience that it is possible to cut, fold, and install your Kerdi there such that no apparent hole exists.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-09-2021, 03:01 PM   #59
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I believe some folks use Kerdi fix for that tiny hole in corner. I used the preformed corners on my shower. Is that greenboard on the shower walls ? I hope it's just my tablet making it show green because it not approved for use with kerdi since greenboard has a waxy coating on it.
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Unread 10-09-2021, 03:13 PM   #60
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Good to know, thanks. I was thinking that some massaging would move the cut-corner behind one of the flaps. I’ll definitely get some kerdi fix too, for peace of mind if nothing else.

Let me know what you think about the dry pack + thinset method for shoring up the base.
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