frost-proof tile for unheated interior

[H1ckory]

First, thanks for all your help on related topics. This forum has been a godsend.

I'm tiling a bathroom in a log cabin in Maryland. The cabin is unheated in winter and not often air-conditioned in summer. I've used porcelain on the floor and am now tackling the wall tiles.

Question: do I need to use frost-proof tile for the wall tiles? If so, are there some name brands that I should look at?

Again -- thanks for all the help. This is a great forum.

-- Bob C

[Bill Vincent]

Bob-- before you start tiling, I hope you've checked into this thoroughly. There are some real "breathing" issues with the logs of a log home that can wreak havok on tile walls. They make special installation systems just for the framing of walls that will be tiled and attached in one way or the other to exterior walls.

[bbcamp]

Bob,

If the tile is indoors and protected from water, then any tile should do. Frost proof tiles do not absorb water, thus, when they freeze, do not explode. No water, no damage.

[H1ckory]

What are those breathing issues? I should have added the log cabin was built in the late 1940s. One wall of the bathroom directly abuts the exterior log walls.

Settling should all be done by now. And when I have cut into the logs, their interior looks and smells like fresh clean lumber. I was told that the chemicals they used to use has made these old log cabins impervious to termites for practically ever. Don't know what it is doing to us....


-- Bob

[John Bridge]

Bob,

I lost the argument on this last time around. Seems log homes move a bit as long as they are there. Where's Todd?

[Bill Vincent]

It has nothing to do with settling. It's a seasonal expansion and contraction (breathing) thing with the logs-- they move an incredible distance, as building materials go, and can really cause problems.

[H1ckory]

Where can I get info on how to deal with the log breathing problem?

-- Bob

[bbcamp]

The problem can be dealt with by making sure the interior walls are free to float with respect to the logs. Any log home manufacturer can show you details they use. Many involve slotting the nail holes to allow for settlement where the interior walls tie into exterior walls.

[ninemile]

Boy I don't know about this "breathing" thing but I have 2 tiled bathrooms in my TN log cabin and they're fine after 6 years. The biggest problem is adding a vent fan for each bath. It can get awful steamy in the bath during the summer.

What I did was let the tub stud wall float with respect to the ext. log wall using grooves (like bbcamp said) and then used CBU and standard wall tiling technique for my glazed wall tiles. Do a google search on partition walls for log homes and for more info. I think TN log homes site will have some good info.

I found that my logs did there settling in the first 3 years and I had to go through a few cases of caulk around the windows, doors, and rim joists, to keep the bugs out. Especially the wasps ugh

[Bill Vincent]

Colleen-- I've seen case after case up here of people who didn't use the floating system that BB was talking about (the same system I mentioned in my first post) Thank God it was a friend's house I found out on the hard way-- I did a bathroom for him, complete with a ceramic shower pan (his house had been standing for about 6 years at this point) in the middle of the summer 3 years ago, and as soon as the first real freeze came about just after Christmas, there was a nice grout crack that went all the way around the walls, about 2' up from the pan-- no where near the durock joint. I was a little afraid of this, because I'd heard about the movement of log homes-- I just underestimated it. One way or the other, I caulked this grout joint, and about 2 weeks later, my buddy noticed that the tiles on either side of the caulk joint must have been rubbing together (they were butted) because they were beginning to chip. We called the manufacturer of the particular home he had, and that's when I found out about this floating system, that the logs can actually move 1/2"- 3/4" from season to season, in extreme cases, but it's not uncommon to see 3/8".

[tileguytodd]

Todd is here and I agree with everything Colleen and Bill and Bob have said.I really have nothing further i can add.They pretty much covered it.The floating partition wall is only needed where you would be in direct contact with an exterior or interior log wall.
Now, if this cabin is not on a solid foundation with footings,there are other issues that may need to be addressed.
Many cabins are built on posts with log stringers and a floor system built over this.If this is the case,DO NOT TILE ANY FLOORS.They will not hold up.Go to a hardwood floor or carpet. OK theres my nickles worth

[H1ckory]

Todd says: "Many cabins are built on posts with log stringers and a floor system built over this....DO NOT TILE..."

Uh-oh. What do you mean by "posts?" The foundation is not a continuous wall, but cinderblock pilings about 2x2' square. There are beams running over these footings. Is that considered a "post" system? btw -- too late now anyway; the floor is down already and if it's wrong, I'm switching from "try to do it perfect" mode to "live with it and see."

I am going to put in a floating wall for the surface that faces the exterior -- 3/4" plywood with vertically-oriented slots for expansion/contraction, and 1/2" CBU over that?

Thanks to everybody for all of your help. This has been fun... so far!

-- Bob

[tileguytodd]

Ah yep ya sure you betcha thats what would be called a post supported cabin .They have a tendancy to walk around a bit so to speak.I wish you well on the floor tile installation but i dont hold out much hope.On the brite side, ive seen an awful lot of floors that should have failed and didnt,so perhaps you'll be one of the lucky ones.My favorite of all time was a slate floor installed on 5/8" Particle board with linoleum glue.danged if it wasnt there for 20 years.They even used the 1/16" trowel.how did it last? I have absolutly no idea,nobody does,freak of nature perhaps