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Old 06-20-2019, 05:09 AM   #31
PC7060
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I’d reconsider the sistering, you don’t need the extra strength with the center beam and it will be a lot more complicated and expensive than mixing deck mud.

If you really don’t want to do the deck mud, you should consider just glueing and screwing 2x4 flat to the tops of the joists and setting your new subfloor over that surface. It will get you close to the required height and is much easier than sisters. The remaining height difference can be made up using another layer of plywood if necessary.

The photo below shows an example of something similar I did to strengthen ceiling rafters and increase depth for additional insulation.

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The big dip can be address by using composite shims (from Lowe’s or Home Depot) between the joist edge and the center beam you showed in your pictures.

The shims are tapered and can be hammer between the joist s and beam to raise up the sagged sections. If the joist are sagging more than a 3/8” use 1/2” plywood instead of the composite shims. A bottle jack is a very useful tool when lifting joists back into plane.
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:16 AM   #32
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Thank you, PC. I'm reading about deck mud and will discuss with him. I guess sagging joists are not a problem if I'm leveling with mud? Also, my plumber is now confused... ugh. He can set the tub right on deck mud surface, yes?

*edit- my drain location is changing from standard to corner, so do I need to leave a new drain pipe hole? Or is plumber supposed to drill through deck mud??

The dip is noticeable, perhaps more than 3/8. I don't understand how 1/2" ply would be used- just a small section placed under the joist, on top of beam?

What about where subfloor extends past joist? Probably 10" near vanity wall with nothing to adhere to. ??

Any advice on heat? If I don't use deck mud, someone mentioned insulation under heat, what would that be?
Thanks!!
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:53 AM   #33
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He didn't think 2x4's flat sounded very strong and suggested sistering 2x8 sisters 8-10' maybe? Idk (length of bath is 10') just for getting a flat floor and a little added height. If we do that, I suppose plumber will easily drill through ply.
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Old 06-20-2019, 05:30 PM   #34
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Regard the 2x4 on top of joist, nothing stronger that one board resting directly on another! When done right, it will double the strength of a 2x8 joist.

Funny your plumber would be worried about framing strength. I spent a good bit of my time reworking framing they cut in a carefree manner to run their lines.


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Old 06-20-2019, 05:36 PM   #35
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Use Ditra heat over an approved subfloor and you’ll be fine. Regardless of the floor heating product you choose, I’d be sure to add a R30 batt between the joists. It gets cold in Tulsa and you’ll want to hold onto all the heat you can.

I saw a bunch of old iron pipe in your photos. Is that domestic water supply or for a hot water radiator?

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Old 06-20-2019, 05:43 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PC
It gets cold in Tulsa
Not since the ice age.

They're at 92 degrees today.....
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Old 06-20-2019, 05:46 PM   #37
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Quote:
The dip is noticeable, perhaps more than 3/8.
You can easily raise the center of floors up using either purchased or site made shims.

Quote:
I don't understand how 1/2" ply would be used- just a small section placed under the joist, on top of beam?
You got it. Doesn’t have to be ply. Any solid material of correct thickness will work.

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Old 06-20-2019, 05:50 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Kevin
They're at 92 degrees today.....
Ah, joys of the Midwest, hot and sticky in summer and subzero temperature with arctic winds in winter.



Edit: just checked temp ranges in OK and gotta admit much better than Nebraska where I spent my younger days.
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:19 PM   #39
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Talking

How do I put the batt between the joists- screw 1x4's under joists every 15"...??

Iron pipes all over...

We had a mild winter and have had a mild spring, I'm not complaining... a bit too much rain, but my garden looks great

My plumber isn't my demo/subfloor helper. We've decided for double ply, not mud, so I assume plumber will just cut a new drain hole. I might use 1/2" Hardi if I need the height, I assume it's cheaper than ditra XL.

Soo... I think this is coming along nicely... I still need to know about that ply overhang..how much is ok? Do we use blocks between joists for overhang?

BTW- how do I purchase 2x4 or 2x8 - anything untreated or certain grade?

By next week I'll be Buffon you with shower wall questions!
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:18 PM   #40
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Very easy to cut plumbing holes through subfloor, just keep him away from tbe structural stuff!!!

Def add blocking between joists at all unsupported plywood edges.

The paper backed insulation is typically stapled off to the side of the joists.

Standard 2x4 etc are fine. No need to use pressure treated lumbers.

Are you replacing all the old iron water supply lines? Good time to replace with CPCV lines. Thatís assuming the pipes arenít feeding radiant heating system.
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:22 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Jane
By next week I'll be [buggin] you with shower wall questions!
Ha! Iíll defer shower construction questions to Kevin, CX or one of the other tile wizards.
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:38 PM   #42
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Yes, replacing what pipes we can.

Ply edges are every 6 or 8"? That means a 2x4 every 6-8" as well?

Thanks so much!!!
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Old 06-21-2019, 03:45 AM   #43
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Ply edges are every 6 or 8"? That means a 2x4 every 6-8" as well?
Afraid I don’t understand. You’ll need to make sure that there is blocking under all unsupported edges.

For example, you’ll see there is blocking around the edges of this bathroom for the new subfloor.

If you are using T&G plywood, mated T&G edges are considered supported. [edit: so NO blocking is required]

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Old 06-21-2019, 08:06 AM   #44
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Shit. I just meant the short edge that overhangs the joists...forgot about all the tng seams! Ugh.
Are those doubled 2x4's? I see little strips, like 1x4 beside the 2x4 sand which. For level?

Then going the other way, 2x4's are flat? Are these just screwed in with deck screws? Griptitie? 2 per 2x4? Glue?
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Old 06-21-2019, 07:05 PM   #45
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Hey Jane, Happy Friday!

No blocking required under T&G joints between boards. Only unsupported edges.


Lay the 2x4 flat centers on the joists. Use a bead of PL3 and 3” Griprite (or similar) deck screws. I’d put a screw ever 16”. Try to get 2x4 which can reach end to end of the bathroom if possible. If not, use two board with the joint over the center beam.

Shim up the joist BEFORE you install the upper 2x4.

Re the picture of the floor framing; the 2x laid flat around the edges are to support the plywood. That floor had a lot of ugly going on so don’t look too hard at the stuff in the center.
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