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Old 06-16-2019, 05:10 PM   #16
cx
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What Kevin said.
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Originally Posted by Frank
None of the wood is KDAT................ I'll wait till the wood dries out before I do the tiling.
Good summer project then, Frank. Just not this summer.

You might get by with tiling over what you've got, but I wouldn't do it on a project I had to sign my name to. Just too risky, 'specially when none of that risk is necessary at all.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 06-16-2019, 05:19 PM   #17
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I had some treated lumber stored in my garage. It took about a year for it to feel nice and dry.
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Old 06-16-2019, 05:56 PM   #18
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CX -- I'm not sure I follow you. Are you saying the risk is that I'll be tiling over treated ply, and it would be better to replace it with un-treated ply? What is the unnecessary risk I am taking?

If I cover the ply with Durock, what difference does it make if it's treated or not? (I am planning to wait till next spring to tile it.)
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Old 06-16-2019, 06:37 PM   #19
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None of us like the treated plywood in the least. I would remove the treated ply.

The framing...the fact that it’s sopping wet treated lumber stinks. It could easily be dry construction lumber, but it’s not. Around these parts, the building inspectors would be perfectly okay with dry, untreated wood. I don’t think any of them would object to using treated...not because they favor the treated. But because the code is written in a non-prescriptive manner. And treated lumber doesn’t violate the code, as far as I’m aware. Passing code doesn’t mean that a project is being done with best practices...it just means that it doesn’t violate code and meets some minimal standards which may or may not play well with your intended tile assembly. If the inspector knew that you built to standards against the manufacturer’s instructions, they would have proper grounds to fail the inspection. It has been my extensive experience that some inspectors are aware and some are not...meaning that the onus is on YOU to build to best practices. It isn’t wise to turn a blind eye to a problem just because something “passes” an inspection.

If you choose to stay with what you’ve got, I’d wait for the framing to dry. I’d use a moisture meter once every few weeks to check its progress and wait until it got down below 19%. Then proceed with the proper plywood and tiling substrate.

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Old 06-16-2019, 07:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KG
If you choose to stay with what you’ve got, I’d wait for the framing to dry... Then proceed with the proper plywood and tiling substrate.
Sorry, confused again. KG you say "if i stay with what I've got" (which is treated plywood already in place)....but then you say "proceed with the proper plywood" (by which I assume you mean put down untreated plywood.)

Doesn't the screen porch sit on TOP of the plywood? If so, the builder can't build the walls and roof until the plywood is down, so how can I let the framing dry out before putting down the plywood?

Is there an option to put non-treated plywood over the treated ply after it has thoroughly dried, and then tile? And/or won't the Durock over the treated ply allow me to tile? Does that cause problems? I'm just trying to find a way out of this mess I've walked into.
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Old 06-16-2019, 08:34 PM   #21
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This is why I said it stinks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Franko
I'm just trying to find a way out of this mess I've walked into.
You're paying someone to do this, right? Maybe it's time to ask what your contract reads. Your builder is expected to be the knowledgeable party here. For instance, if I wrote someone a contract to build them something and it turned out that I made a mistake with installing a material that the manufacturer's said was a no-no, I'd be on the hook for correcting the mistake before proceeding.

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Old 06-16-2019, 08:43 PM   #22
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Frank, I don't think there's any way you can expect a successful tile job over treated plywood. I'd just bite the bullet and get rid of it.

The joists will dry out eventually, but you'll have to wait a while for that to happen. As they dry out, they'll start to twist and warp, which is likely to exert too much stress on your tile, Durock or not.
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Old 06-16-2019, 09:17 PM   #23
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KG - My builder is not to blame. The blueprints called for treated joists with 5/4 treated planking over them, which is what he was going to build. But he asked me if I would prefer that he do plywood and indoor/outdoor carpet instead (which he says he's done a bunch of times and people like it.) I said yes. Then my wife decided she would like me to tile it instead...so I figured I could just tile over the plywood as long as I had him space the joists at 12" OC instead of 16".

So...now I guess my options are to have him do the indoor/outdoor carpet over the plywood, or have him pull up the plywood and go with the 5/4 planking as called for in the original plans. Ugh.

Thanks Kevin for the answer to the specific answer about Durock. That helps me understand WHY I can't just fix it that way.
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:20 AM   #24
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Maybe vinyl planks rather than indoor/outdoor carpet? I have no idea what they require, but I imagine they would be more forgiving than tile.
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:44 AM   #25
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I have the same situation on a screened in porch; treated plywood over treated lumber. I installed primed and painted 3/4”x3” T&G Douglas fir floor over 15 years ago and it’s still going strong. As I recall, there is a 1/2” airgap between the doug Fir and the ply which keeps the T&G floor dried out to protect against rot.

This was a redo to replace 5/4 treated planking originally laid over the plywood and which looked terrible after a few years when the gap filled up with gunk (leaves, pet hair, etc).
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Old 06-17-2019, 12:50 PM   #26
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I asked the local flooring dealer about vinyl. They told me that there are a few products that the manufacturers say can be used outside, but they don't recommend it. They say it doesn't hold up. Of course, this is the same floor dealer who told me "of course you can tile the porch, people do it all the time."

Funny you said you didn't like 5/4 over the plywood....because that is exactly what we are thinking we'll do if we don't carpet.
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Old 06-17-2019, 01:39 PM   #27
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Your "floor dealer" wasn't wrong in telling you you could tile your porch, Frank. You just need to make some changes in your construction plans for it to work well.
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Old 06-17-2019, 01:58 PM   #28
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Quote:
Funny you said you didn't like 5/4 over the plywood....
The planks tend to warps and shrink leading to big gaps that collect all kinds of nasty stuff.
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Old 06-17-2019, 04:51 PM   #29
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So would a viable strategy be to put down outdoor carpet until the PT framing and plywood dries out, then rip it up, put down another layer of 1/2" non-PT plywood, then a tile waterproofing membrane (e.g. NobleDeck), and then tile?

Or is the PT plywood likely to end up way out of flat, making tiling a real pain?

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Old 06-17-2019, 05:07 PM   #30
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Seems like it would be less work just to remove the PT ply and replace it.

But to answer your question, I still wouldn't do it with the treated ply on there. You could wait all that time for it to dry out, and it might be flat, or it might look like a skateboard park.
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