Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 12-20-2018, 11:55 AM   #16
speed51133
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Milwaukee WI area
Posts: 670
__________________
Mike
speed51133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-20-2018, 12:17 PM   #17
AEN3MA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 135
Sorry, I'm probably not describing this right. There will be tiles in the shower floor. I need to make a shower tray. Some shower Tray's/Pans come already prefabricated that you can lay tiles over, like the KBRS Tile-Basin or the Schluter Systems Kerdi-Shower-Kit Stainless Steel Styrene Shower Base 60-in W x 32-in L with Center Drain. They are expensive. Do I need to go that route or can I make something myself.

What I am trying to do is below.

I just don't want it to leak to the unit below and my friends warn me the shower pan/tray (whatever you want to call it) is critical. The slope, etc...

Hence why I asked, are you better off buying a prefabricated unit like the KBRS that has everything instead of doing it yourself.
Attached Images
   
__________________
Josh

Last edited by AEN3MA; 12-20-2018 at 12:43 PM.
AEN3MA is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-20-2018, 01:10 PM   #18
cx
Da Home Builder
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 88,283
Welcome. Please change your permanent signature line to a first name for us to use.

By far the least expensive method, and still one of the best, of constructing a tile shower receptor is to start with a properly sloped deck mud bed that perfectly fits the shower footprint and drain location. That can be either two mud beds for a traditional PVC liner construction, or a single mud bed for a direct bonded waterproofing membrane type of installation. Either can be installed over a suitable subfloor without regard to making it perfectly level as is the requirement for all the pre-fabricated foam trays and other such receptors.

We've had hundreds and hundreds of DIY visitors here create such shower receptors successfully.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-20-2018, 01:30 PM   #19
Topspin
SchluterUgrad
 
Topspin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 2,383
Hi Josh,

CX is correct, most people have done the pan liner method in the past. However, I have not done one since 2006 and do about 12 to 15 showers a year ever since using a surface applied waterproofing membrane. I find that infinitely easier and less prone to mistakes than the liner method.

For a quick video to show how you can do a mud bed with, in this case a linear drain, see the following link for a very simple mud bed by Laticrete. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NLzYA79OV20

I’ve used Laticrete Hydro ban, Kerdi, pre-formed shower pans by Schluter, Laticrete and Wedi. But just doing a mud bed costs almost nothing and doesn’t take very long. And even if you made a start-over mistake, it would cost you about $15 in materials and a few hours time to redo. ( not including your waterproofing membrane material top layer)

If you go to Laticrete’s website I am sure they have additional videos on doing a center drain mud shower pan as well.
__________________
Kevin



Last edited by Topspin; 12-20-2018 at 01:36 PM.
Topspin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-20-2018, 01:52 PM   #20
AEN3MA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 135
What is the difference between a linear pan method (mud) and a surface applied waterproofing membrane? Don't you need the mud pan regardless?

I'm a bit confused, isn't the pan the foundation that you need?
__________________
Josh
AEN3MA is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-20-2018, 02:07 PM   #21
speed51133
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Milwaukee WI area
Posts: 670
the traditional liner pan is packed mud with a slope to the drain. then you lay your PVC membrane. then you pack ANOTHER mud slope on top of the PVC liner. this is essentially called a preslope and a slope.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...45422775909821

surface applied membranes only have one mud slope, then the surface membrane.
https://www.diychatroom.com/attachme...erdidrain2.jpg

OR, you can buy a foam pan like KBRS or schluter that takes the place of the single mud slope.
__________________
Mike
speed51133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-20-2018, 02:42 PM   #22
AEN3MA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 135
Thanks Mike, that was helpful.
__________________
Josh
AEN3MA is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-20-2018, 05:26 PM   #23
Topspin
SchluterUgrad
 
Topspin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 2,383
The reasons why I changed to the surface applied membranes is because I don’t like following all those rules. No penetration is below a certain point, weep hole protection, pack a perfect mud bed, then put a rubber liner and then pack another mud bed on top? Glue on corners that are thick rubber, notching out studs for folded corners or trying to adapt to walls that flare out at the bottom: packing a curb on top of the rubber liner with no nails, it’s all a lot of work.

I know I am exaggerating it but a liquid applied waterproofing method basically forgets all those rules. Pack one slope, you’re done with that. Put your waterproofing on properly and you are done. Using Schluter Kerdi - parts of it can be even easier, some parts have a little bit of work in the corners.

The kind of questions you are asking gives me the impression you are at the very start of this process so take a little time to learn the benefits of today’s most innovative products and the method of installation and you might find something you like better than the liner traditional mud pan.

And if you were going to be using some type of preformed pan you are going to be using a liquid membrane anyways so you might consider looking at going that route with a simple to build mud pan.

Or if you are set on doing a preformed pan, for example a Schluter Kerdi shower pan is only about $100

https://www.amazon.com/Kerdi-Shower-.../dp/B00EKU0VPA
__________________
Kevin



Last edited by Topspin; 12-20-2018 at 05:31 PM.
Topspin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-20-2018, 06:34 PM   #24
AEN3MA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 135
This is very confusing. Seems like there are multiple ways to skin a cat.
__________________
Josh

Last edited by AEN3MA; 12-20-2018 at 06:45 PM.
AEN3MA is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-20-2018, 06:35 PM   #25
Kman
Moderator
 
Kman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NW Arkansas, Ozark Mountains
Posts: 10,852
There are.

If you're looking for a short answer about which one to do, I would advise going with a surface-applied membrane, specifically a sheet membrane.
__________________
Kevin

The top ten reasons to procrastinate:

1.
Kman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-20-2018, 06:59 PM   #26
AEN3MA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 135
Is this method pricey? Which is the must budget friendly method? and which is the overall easiest method for a beginner like myself?
__________________
Josh
AEN3MA is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-20-2018, 07:18 PM   #27
Kman
Moderator
 
Kman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NW Arkansas, Ozark Mountains
Posts: 10,852
That requires two different answers.

The least expensive is the conventional liner and two mud beds, plastic on the studs, and cement boards. But it also has a number steps and if you miss any of them, you could have a leak.

The surface applied membranes require one sloped mud bed and the waterproofing layer. Not much else to it. It is more expensive, but not so much that it's not worth it.

If budget is the only consideration, go with the PVC liner, but be prepared to follow every step to the letter.
__________________
Kevin

The top ten reasons to procrastinate:

1.
Kman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-20-2018, 07:21 PM   #28
AEN3MA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 135
Does the top layer or Mud layer (bottom) have to be sloped If I'm going the mud route?
__________________
Josh

Last edited by AEN3MA; 12-20-2018 at 07:27 PM.
AEN3MA is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-20-2018, 07:38 PM   #29
cx
Da Home Builder
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 88,283
Any mud layers you have in a shower must be sloped a minimum of 1/4 inch per horizontal foot from the drain to the farthest corner of your shower. The tile surface would, then, be sloped the same. The perimeter of the mud bed(s) should be level all the way around.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-20-2018, 09:38 PM   #30
AEN3MA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 135
Thanks for all the help people. I'm learning through this thread.

So let me get this straight.

If I were to buy the Kerdi Shower Tray (like the one pictured below), which step does that remove from the mud method.

From my understanding, in the mud method, you have to mud, liner over that, mud 1/4 slope. Please correct me If I'm wrong.

With this tray, does it remove all of those steps? Or do I first have to mud, then lay that tray.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Josh

Last edited by AEN3MA; 12-20-2018 at 09:54 PM.
AEN3MA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
spacers or no spacers for subway tile T@StPete Tile Forum/Advice Board 5 07-27-2015 07:18 AM
Tile Spacers Gunner Tile Forum/Advice Board 6 03-20-2008 09:50 PM
What size tile spacers to use on bathroom walls ruben7566 Tile Forum/Advice Board 3 05-09-2006 06:50 AM
better tile spacers tilesnake Professionals' Hangout 21 02-24-2004 11:36 AM
Re-Using Tile Spacers Robert Villa Professionals' Hangout 12 10-25-2002 10:33 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:51 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC