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Unread 09-14-2020, 02:39 PM   #1
eokie1
Jim in JAX, FLA
 
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question about floor tile in 1960 built home

Hey all, I have not been on this forum, since 2010, when you all were PRICELESS in helping me do a small bathroom tile re-do.... (when I was living in Dayton, OH)
I am working on a circa 1960, pier and beam floor, concrete block home, in Jacksonville, FL. (belongs to my 82 y.o. mother) Re-doing master bath, trying to decide how to re-do the floor. After removing the 1" thick drywall/plaster walls, there is a gap, around the perimeter, below where the walls *were*.... So, I need to get you guys expert opinions, about whether I need to REMOVE the small mosaic tiles, or just thinset in the perimeter gaps, and lay the new tile over the old....???? the existing tile is in perfect condition, no cracks or anything..... I would *guess* that there is a layer of asphalt underlayment, under the old tile, but I am not sure. Pine floors in the bedroom adjacent to the master bath (and the whole house)

Also, are there any tile pros, here in Jacksonville, FL area, that are on this forum ??? (might HIRE this OUT..!!!)

2 PICS of the floor, included

THANKS !!!
James Jensen
Jacksonville, FL
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Unread 09-14-2020, 08:25 PM   #2
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Hi Jim, welcome back. Sure, since the old tile floor is in good shape, you can tile over it. I'd probably rough up the old tile with a grinder and cup wheel or a floor machine and course sand paper. But that's not necessary if you're sure there's no wax or topical sealers on the tile. Use a good sticky thinset and you'll be fine.

I'd look for a floor patch to fill the outer gap.
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Unread 09-15-2020, 08:20 AM   #3
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overlay floor tile in 1960 master bath

OK, thanks !!! no, the tile does not look like it has ever had wax or sealers on it, just dullish, natural appearance.... the edge gap is fairly large, in spots, couldn't I just mix up like shower floor mud, and use that to fill the gap at the edges ??
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Unread 09-15-2020, 09:09 AM   #4
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Jim, deck mud is not what you want to use to fill those gaps. Follow Davy's advice and get a cementitious patching material for that. Every manufacturer of tile installation products makes at least one such product and some are available from your local home center.

That assumes the gaps really want to be filled, of course. You really want to maintain a perimeter gap for that old tile floor just as you will for your new tile floor. If you can maintain such a gap of at least 1/4-inch while filling the rest, that's fine. If the gaps are not too wide and presuming a baseboard will be installed over the finished floor, it may not be necessary to do much, or any, filling of those gaps at all. Sounds a bit outrageous, but you must maintain a perimeter gap in your new tile installation and the area will not see any foot traffic.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-15-2020, 02:19 PM   #5
eokie1
Jim in JAX, FLA
 
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question about floor tile in 1960 built home

OK, floor patching it is !!! Thanks for your help !!! I have some more questions, but need to take some pics after I get all the debris cleaned up..!!
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Unread 09-19-2020, 07:39 AM   #6
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Jim in JAX, FLA
 
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1960 built home, space at edges now patched....

OK, got the floor patch installed, going to work on the getting floor ready to tile, need to re-do the curb, as it broke up when I removed the tiles off of it.... did not appear to be any metal screen in it, just mud laid on top of the shower pan liner, over stacked 2x4's..... mosaic tile mocked up around toilet, is what I am going to use for floor, and 3" x 6" white tiles for wall.
QUESTIONS: 1. I read a post on Journal of Light Construction, about tiling over shower tile floor, and the guy suggested Laticrete Platinum 254.....however, I can't find that locally, and it is over $80 / bag, on Amazon !!!! what is an equivalent that I can get at big box store ??
2. the tile I picked is not rated for shower floors, yet reviews on big box site says others have used it that way, and *not* found it too slippery ????
it is THIS tile: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Daltile-...D1P2/205955516
3. for the wet mud to cover the curb, should I get Mortar Mix type s or m, or another person says they use Sakrete Stucco Base coat ??? I have galvanized metal lath, for the curb...
sorry about the pics, I don't know how to rotate ???
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Unread 09-19-2020, 10:01 AM   #7
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Ok, this is the first time you've mentioned tiling the shower floor. Originally, I would have advised tearing up the shower floor and replacing the pan liner. But, looks like that ship has sailed. I assume the inside of the curb still has the original tile. Nailing lath to the top of the curb is never recommended since you would be poking holes in the pan liner. All you can do is fold a piece of lath extending it over onto the top and only nail it on the outside face of the curb. A lot of installers fasten the lath on top of the curb with a few nails but you increase the chance of it leaking in the near future.
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Unread 09-19-2020, 11:07 AM   #8
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1. You certainly don't need an eighty-dollar-a-bag mortar for any of your applications. At Homer's you can purchase Custom's Flexbond for less than half that amount and it will serve your tile-on-tile purpose quite well if you have properly prepared the surface. VersaBond will probably suffice, but FlexBond will give you more margin for error.

2. I would not use a glazed tile on a shower floor, but it's up to you and Mrs. Jim to decide if the tile is suitable for your shower floor.

3. A Type S mortar or the Stucco Base Coat will work for your shower curb over the folded metal lath. I would caution you not to be one of those people Davy mentions who nail their lath to the top of the curb.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-19-2020, 02:37 PM   #9
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question about floor tile in 1960 built home

OK, sorry guys, yes, I decided mid-stream, to go ahead and do the shower floor also, at first I was just going to re-do the avacado-green tile floor outside, and stop at the inside of the curb/shower floor, UNTIL LATER.....

yes, I bought Flexbond today, at orange big box...(based on LIBERRY INFO !!!) I have read the liberry article, about doing the shower curb, so yes, am planning to CLAMP the metal over the curb, ONLY attaching it on the outside, at bottom...I bought Sakrete type S mortar mix, for the wet mud to make the shower curb.

The INTERIOR (to the curb) tile *is* still in place, but I plan to remove it, and re-build the curb on both sides, carefully, on top of the old shower liner....

of course, per liberry info, will make sure it slopes BACK into the shower....

I bought an "Extend-a-drain" at Floor & Decor, to raise the drain to height of the new tile.... will have to modify a little, I guess the standard width is now 3 3/8", but this 60 year old drain has screws spaced about 3 1/8"....so I may have to cut it apart, epoxy it back together, to make if fit the smaller diameter....since all it needs to do is space the shower strainer up to meet new tile height....

I bought some PVC inside and outside corners, to patch up the shower liner, as on one side, I removed the very small stub-out, because it was not load-bearing, like the other side.....so, I will have to trim that out, solvent weld more shower liner over the old, to make it work....it is the far end of the shower, so it should work ??? I bought a 2' by 5' piece of PVC shower liner also, to used as needed, with Weld-Tite Flex PVC solvent cement.......

I am completely open to suggestions / criticism / outright condemnation / etc..... ha ha ha

I am a ONE-TIME mud-bedder and tile layer, who only succeeded on last project, with all of you guys EXPERTISE !!!!!

THANKS !!
James Jensen
Jax, FLA (where we have n'easter blowing in, rained ALL DAY LONG !!!! ) until I moved here, I did not know FL got "N-easters" ha !!
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Unread 09-19-2020, 07:55 PM   #10
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Since you plan to redo the inside of the curb, over bend the lath in a u shape and slide it over the curb. Over bending the lath will cause it to hug the curb, then nail or staple the outside.
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Unread 09-19-2020, 08:47 PM   #11
eokie1
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yes, plan to do that !!! THANKS !!!
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Unread 09-20-2020, 12:43 PM   #12
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1960's built home, shower demo above floor pan liner...

OK, fellers...... project CREEP has struck again, I wanted to just remove the UGLY bottom row of BLACK tile, but that was exTREMELY problematic......also, I figured out, that at the top of the tile, they had gradually layered it out, from over 1/2" drywall only, to meet the drywall under Plaster....at top part of the wall.....(about 1-1/2" to 2" thick,,,that the whole house is covered in.....) When they built house, they apparently used 2' x 8' USG gypsum, horizontally, as a base, rather than lathe, and then plastered over the top.... VERY FEW CRACKS in whole house, so whoever did it back then, knew what they were doing......

any way, I need to decide to use green drywall, covered by Kerdi membrane, or use kerdi board ???? Kerdi board would be EASIER, but maybe a *little* more expensive...... I searched this forum, but didn't see anyone compare the 2, $$ or effort-wise ???

also, at the INSIDE of the curb wall, how deep do I need to chisel out the old mud bed....just to the bottom of the old floor tile, or there-abouts.....?? Does the floor pan liner look like it is extended up, far enough......it sure doesn't seem to extend very high.....but I don't see any mildew or anything, in the framing...... I moved here 7/2018, before that, an 88 year old widow lived here, after buying the house when it was built, around 1960.......she raised 2 sons, and lived here until a year or so before she died, in a retirement facilty..... sooooo, point is, it may not have been used much, at all, until I moved in, 7/2018, and I just take 1 shower in a.m., and that is it...... may explain how well it looks with just tile over drywall....??? we'll see, when I do the showerhead wall, that is where I will expect there to be some water infiltration issues......... THANKS IN ADVANCE for you guys, for NOOBIE help !!! also, I am going to get different floor tile, as the one I picked, I can't find enough in stock within 100 miles at Home Depot !!! and, as pointed out, the one I picked, was likely ILL-advised, for IN the shower, as it was glazed, and over .46 whatever-it-is-rating.....
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Unread 09-20-2020, 05:43 PM   #13
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Jim, looking at your last pics, looks like you have removed the 2x4 jamb, maybe 2-2x4 boards on the left side. Do you plan to replace those?

The inside of the curb can be removed down to the shower floor mud. Any more than that and you'll risk poking a hole in the liner.

On the walls, the liner should go 3 inches higher than the curb height. I can't tell if it goes that high. The more I look at it, the more I'd be leaning to replace the liner while you're this deep into it. No way would I retile a shower and leave the 60 year old liner.
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Unread 09-21-2020, 08:23 AM   #14
eokie1
Jim in JAX, FLA
 
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question about floor tile in 1960 home

Davy:

on the LEFT end of the curb, yes, I removed a 4 or 5" stub wall, that was on top of the curb... I have not cut off the small remnant of it at the ceiling, but I will before I drywall in that strip where the wall *was* Got it on the curb mud... just down to floor... that liner is only (my GUESS...) about 15 or 20 years old, I think, as I can see from GREEN powdery stains on the t&g floor boards under where the shower is, that it once had copper liner (I am guessing???) Or just galvanized metal, I don't think they used plastic liners when this house was built ?? Also, the walls under the tile in the shower were 1/2" drywall only, and everywhere else in the house, including the walls ABOVE the tile in shower, were 1/" drywall with 3/8" or 1/2" of PLASTER over it.....

To save myself a bunch of work, could I just run a 6" or so high strip of new PVC shower liner down, from the *CORRECT* height above curb, and solvent weld it to the old PVC liner ???? ( I know, that sounds kind of shady.....??)

more ??'s.....
I am debating: 1. install Kerdi board on walls OR 2. install green drywall and Kerdi membrane over it....? OR 3. has anyone used USB Fiberock ?? It is 1/3 the price of Kerdi board....but it appears you have to install felt or 4mil plastic under it, for moisture barrier...

also is it normal, that the old metal under the old curb wet mud, was COMPLETELY RUSTED AWAY ???? all that was left was rust stains, in the pattern of that lath metal.....

Thanks to you all, for the invaluable help & guidance !!!
James in JAX, FL
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Unread 09-22-2020, 06:33 PM   #15
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Jim, most of us here look at this from a different angle than you. A new pan liner would have automatically been included in our bid. When bidding a job, I can't see how the pan liner was installed or if it has a preslope under it or if they have nails driven too low, etc. Even if the shower was only a week old, a new pan would be included. That way I know how it was installed. It's too much of a risk not to do it this way. You can take that chance if you want, I understand where you're coming from but I've never done it that way.

Also, with you removing the jamb, you've changed the footprint of the shower. Not sure how you'll tie all that back in to make it leak proof.

I slope the top of my curb framing so any water that gets to the pan can run back toward the shower. I see more leaks at the curb than anywhere else. So, it does catch a lot of water and explains why the lath was rusty.

Someone will come along and answer your Kerdiboard and Fiber rock questions. I don't have the experience with those products like others here do.
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