Stuart bath room upgrade

[cx]

Stuart, your tiles don't give a rat's patooti whether your floor's level. If they did, we couldn't put them on walls, eh?

If you particularly want the floor to be level, that's a different consideration.

Flat is what the tiles care about and the larger the tiles, the more they care. For the tiles you have the industry standard for flat is no deviation from intended plane of more than 1/8th" in ten feet nor 1/16th" in two feet. That's really flat and you'll be glad to have it come time to set those big tiles.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[jadnashua]

Non-level becomes more of an issue when putting things on top of it. You generally want your vanity to be level so that the doors, drawers, and stuff on the counter stay and operate as you wish. So, shimming things is a little more work. It can complicate your tiling, if you're doing the walls, too unless you can hide it with say baseboard.

If it say sloped towards your tub/shower/vanity/wall, any spills might pool where you may not want it to go (like underneath a vanity or under a wall).

[Stuart]

Thank you to the both of you..I really appreciate your time and advice. I've learned so much from everyone and feel much more confident in tackling the job. I am going to back off on the 12 x 24 and go with 12 x 12 for the floor. I think I'll be fine for that. I'm going to check, but my floor seems pretty flat when I put my long level along it. I'll try to get measurements.

[Stuart]

Hi,

Ready to finally do the tile for the floor.. 12" x12"

My original plan was to use ditra over a 1/4" plywood underlayment and a 3/4" subfloor; with my tile thickness, this will give me the right height for the toilet flange.

I now see in the Ditra handbook, a minimum 3/8" underlayment is required.

Using a 3/8" underlayment along my tile thickness will not provide enough of a rise left for the toilet bow flange.

My question is:

Should I just use something else, like 1/4 inch cement board instead of ditra to get the right height for the flange or use the 3/8" underlayment and possibly need a flange extender.

My reason for using ditra was it was easy to cut to size and it's reputation

Thank you

[cx]

Stewart, the correct location for your WC flange is on top of the finished floor, on top of the tile in your application. Is that what you're calculating?

I suggest you make your floor suitable for the tile installation and install your WC flange where it needs to be.

I would not even use the 3/8ths" plywood as your second layer of subflooring. Too difficult most of the time to get it sufficiently flat for a ceramic tile installation. Nominal half-inch is the thinnest I'd recommend.

You can use CBU as your tile underlayment. I don't think you'll see any real advantage to an uncoupling membrane on that small floor, but I've no more proof of that than has Schluter for their Ditra.

Folks use toilet flange extenders all the time, but I'd avoid them if at all possible. This is what a proper installation should look like.



My opinion; worth price charged.

[Stuart]

Hi,

I placed a piece of 1/2 osb and the tile to show that 1/2" brings the finished tile flush with top of flange.

I will use your recommendation of 1/2" plywood and then adjust flange height as required with extender. As you say, they are used all the time, but just another item that could go wrong at some point.

Thank you for your help.

[cx]

You're planning to install your tile directly to your second layer of plywood?

[Stuart]

No...I plan still use my ditra since I have it. The 1/2 plywood will bring it into their specification.

Thank you,

[Stuart]

Hi, I have the bathroom prepped and ready for tiling.

A couple of questions:

1. What is the recommended trowel size for the 12" x 12" floor tiles. It is sort of confusing. I see either 1/4 x 3/8 sq notch, 1/4 x 1/2 sq notch or even 1/2 x 1/2 sq notch. I know it is sometimes based on peoples experience (which I have not yet)

2. I am confident that my Ditra is well bonded with good contact, but there are some low spots, I think from my knee when I was putting in the Kerdi band at the seams, tub and walls. Will the motar "make up" for those small low spots. Just wondering if I should be concern. When I lay the tiles on the ground, they do not rock or anything over these low spots.

My plan is to start back at the tub and work back toward the door. My cut (only 1 inch or so) tiles will be on the left where the toilet and vanity will be. any other suggestions for first timer?

Thank you

[ss3964spd]

Stuart,

For those 12X12's a 3/8X3/8 slant notch trowel would be great. You'll not likely find one at a BBS but you will online. You can certainly try the 1/4X3/8 first if you already have it to see if it provides good coverage. Regardless of which, you'll want to burn a thin layer of mortar onto the backs of those tiles with either the flat side of the trowel or some other flat bladed tool.

For the low spots - depends on how low and wide/long they are. If you're talking about 1/16th to 1/8 an inch filling them with mortar will work, but you'll want to fill them and let that mortar cure before continuing.

Are you going to pre-fill the Ditra first?

[Stuart]

Thank you the answer:

Pre-filing the Ditra; That is another area that seems like some people do and some do not. Ditra says that you can tile right away after putting Ditra in place. I take that direction as you do not need to prefill the ditra, so that was not going to be my plan.I certainly could prefill the Ditra, which is no problem and allow it to cure.

What are the reasons to prefill or or filling in low level spots and allow it to cure before tiling? Those two steps could be done at the same time.

Thank you

[ss3964spd]

I think the some people who do not are mostly pros with years of experience spreading mortar and setting tile. I don't have that experience so I pre-filled my Ditra Heat mat. I also used an anti-lippage system and am pretty sure between filling the Ditra, then spreading another layer of mortar on top of that, and positioning the leveling spacers all at one time would have made more mess than I'd be comfortable dealing with as a rookie.

Add your low spots into the mix. How will you ensure they are leveled off if you don't pre-fill them first? I'm not sure how you'd be able to fill the low spots, get them in plane with the surrounding area, check it with a straight edge, then trowel on your final setting bed without disturbing the low spot which you just leveled off.

Again, maybe a pro can do that with minimum fuss, but this slacker couldn't.

[redlude97]

Originally Posted by ss3964spd

I don't have that experience so I pre-filled my Ditra Heat mat. I also used an anti-lippage system and am pretty sure between filling the Ditra, then spreading another layer of mortar on top of that, and positioning the leveling spacers all at one time would have made more mess than I'd be comfortable dealing with as a rookie.

Planning ahead for my first ditra heat install I'm thinking of prefilling the mat also, mainly so I can carefully cover the wires without worrying about damaging it rushing. Do you do the whole floor, and if so how do you go back and tile over the area if you can't reach a side without having to step/kneel on the partially cured pre filled mat? Or do you do it in sections? Was thinking I could prefill half, let it dry overnight, tile over that the following day, then prefill the other half and let it dry and tile the rest the following day?

[jadnashua]

If I were going to prefill, I'd start at the back of the room and work my way towards the doorway and do it in one fell swoop.

FWIW, cement doesn't need to 'dry'...curing is a chemical process that takes what water it does need and incorporates it into it's chemical structure. Now, some modified mortars DO need to dry, but those are mostly limited to those with latex as the modifier. Any excess water not incorporated into the curing cement will eventually evaporate or dry but not have an effect on the overall strength unless the original water/cement ratio was wrong.

It's not a bad idea to kneel on a board rather than the mat, so a piece of 1/4" or thicker plywood isn't a bad idea. Remember, the 'posts' are just air underneath them, and until it's supported with the thinset and tile, you can dislodge the heating wire or collapse the 'post' if you're not careful.

[Stuart]

Hi,

I emailed Schluter to ask their input and they recommended to prefill the waffles and the low spots at the same time and then tile the next day. I plan to use a straight edge to help me gauge the low spots where extra motar is needed. I'll let you know how it comes out.

Thank you