Master Bath Renovation

[arnav]

ok, great. I will attach it to the 1.5" x 1.5" studs away from the pipes.

An open ended question i guess about those copper pipes.

I will replace the rough-in valve and maybe the very few inches of dirty copper leading to it (as well as add an arrestor):





No particular reason to believe why i need to replace the rest of the copper pipes right (pic below)? Other then some green rust on them in a few spots they seem ok.
You don't automatically replace the pipes, right?

[arnav]

Here are some details on the space I am working with and a proposed layout of the vanity, shower and tub (easier to see in the attached PDF). This is assuming the evil raised platform goes away.

What do you think?

1. Is this a good size for the shower? ~46" x ~61"? I am merely going by the dimensions of the previous shower but can adjust as necessary.

2. Is this big enough to install two shower heads or should I make it wider than 60"?

3. What water proofing is required on the floor and walls (if at all) for a freestanding tub (not claw foot)? I just searched the forum and couldn't find anything.

Thx

[cx]

1. No idea what you might mean by "good" size, Dan. It's bigger than many, smaller than some.

2. You can put two shower heads in any size shower. If you tell us the intended use of the two heads, we might be of more help. I've installed heads at different heights too close together to use simultaneously to accommodate significant height differences in the intended users. I've installed heads in different places to be used simultaneously. I've installed heads on different walls because the customer wanted them there and only one is used 99 percent of the time. Different strokes.

Are you planning to have a door on the shower entry?

3. If you think the area will be a wet area, you should waterproof it. If you think the area is not gonna be a wet area, you need not.

Any place having a vessel large enough to hold humans and will be filled with water is sitting in a wet area far as I'm concerned, but I've installed free-standing tubs in SOG bathrooms without serious waterproofing on accounta they were in the master bath and customer promised not to allow children to use it and further promised that it would be used by only one adult at a time. I'm not sure the truth was with them, but they were writing the checks.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[arnav]

Thanks for all the feedback CX. I'll revise the questions as follows then:

1. If I decide to move the valve from its current location do you just patch the existing hole in the cinderblock with cement?

2. Any recommendations for a shower width to accommodate a bench (opps forgot all about it) and two shower heads for simultaneous use by two adults?
I'd like them to be the same height and on the same wall.

The current value is 38.5" from the wall which seems too short to squeeze in a bench and another shower head (but if moving the valve is not an issue then the current location is moot).

3. The intention is to go with a frameless shower enclosure with a door for a shower entry. I guess that means that the door has to swing from the wall right (and that you caught an error in my plan)?

Layout was revised to include the bench and move the shower door.

[cx]

1. If it needs patched, you could do that. I'd likely stuff some metal lath or poultry netting in the hole and patch with fat mud.

2, 3. I can't see where you plan walls and where you plan glass in your drawings. Difficult to speculate on shower head locations.

And the door seems in a different place in each drawing. Maybe when it settles down a bit we can be more helpful, eh?

[arnav]

lol, its settled awaiting your feedback. I was guessing you would say the hinges for the glass door have to be on the wall (do they?) so I moved it.

See if this blow up helps. if not, i guess i need to go back to the drawing board (pun intended). The PDFs are much clearer to look at.

Basically,
1. What would be the ideal spacing between a bench on the opposite wall and shower head 1?
2. spacing between shower head 1 and 2.
3. spacing between shower head 2 and the glass door.

Can all three fit within 60 or so inches?

EDIT: I just thought of a good (?) reason to constrain a shower to 60". The length of a CBU sheet!

Thanks for bearing with me

[Davy]

Your spacing seems to be about right but can be fine tuned if you think it needs to be. That's too much thinking for me, I'd just add another ft and make it 72 inches long and have plenty room.

You might want to check with a glass guy, the last time I had a shower with a corner like that, my glass guy said he would have to run decorative metal support rail around the top. Yours may not depending on the ceiling height and if the glass goes up that high.

[arnav]

I was about to call a window company to finally come and fix this window when I realized that I may be better off to check with you first in case the window or its installation has to fit to any tiling parameters.
I am looking to use 6mil poly behind a CBU for waterproofing.
How to best waterproof the window in the wet area?

I think one method will be a kerdi band attached to the vinyl window with kerdi fix and thinset to the CBU.
But...
All the other windows in this house are attached directly to the blocks. no wood whatsoever.
The window company may do the same here.

Do I put a furring strip inside the window opening and CBU?
If so, that suggests that when calling the window company I need to tell them that the top and side window frame need to be wide enough to account for the thickness of the furring strip + CBU + tile (~2"). Some windows seem to specifically be marketed as "thin profile" whereas for this application I think I want the opposite.
Does that make sense?

Thx!

[Elkski]

What is the exterior made of? I think I see stucco like expanded metal? My belief is all that wood around the window rotted by water coming in around the window. That window has got to go. I hate replacement windows without new construction flanges that are properly flashed in before the siding material is put on. Non flanged windows rely on a caulking bead to seal. To seal to what is the question.
Did you get that platform out? It does look like someone tried to make some design statement. Unless it was fir the drain line. An outside picture of that window would help. You would be surprised how high some of these guys will climb to a ladder. That's a baby window. I say go square window.
My experience with windows is only 20 on my house that I have seen replaced twice due to leakage. The last time I removeed than and prepped everything and came up with the most modern crazy window flashing methods in use today. I did have a window company come help install the larger ones to my specs. I used vycor envy house wrap and vycor corners and double flashing. They had never seen this but agreed it looks watertight but I live in bluff with gale force winds and heavy rain events. I measured 1/2" of water head pressure during these winds. Meaning water runs uphill or 5' sideways if it has an air path. I've spent over 50k$ on this exposure. Now have Hardie siding. I would never use tyvex

[arnav]

Originally Posted by Elkski

What is the exterior made of?

painted stucco and nothing else. Houses in FL are made to breath. No moisture barriers on the inside as well (unless its a shower of course).

Originally Posted by Elkski

That window has got to go.

Agreed. I just wanted to check with you all in case there are requirements I should pass to the window company.

Originally Posted by Elkski

I hate replacement windows without new construction flanges that are properly flashed in before the siding material is out on. Non flanged windows rely on a caulking bead to seal. To seal to what is the question.

Yeah, another window in the house leaked from an aging caulking bead to the stucco.
I fixed it with OSI's Quad max i picked up in HD and it has been holding up well.

Originally Posted by Elkski

An outside picture of that window would help.

Attached. That circle I believe is just architectural foam.

Originally Posted by Elkski

You would be surprised how high some of these guys will climb to a ladder. That's a baby window. I say go square window.

Yes, that's the plan. Just a bit of a pain since I have to go through HOA approval for an architectural change.

Originally Posted by Elkski

Did you get that platform out? It does look like someone tried to make some design statement. Unless it was for the drain line.

I have given up on taking the platform out. After I started this thread I realized why it is there. There is no crawl space underneath. The entire platform is a roof over a balcony. So yes, the plumbing runs through it and it is raised so that the p-traps don't protrude to the balcony below... See pic.
It was originally very unsafe. You had to go down the height of the shower curb + height of the platform. I am hoping to mitigate it by having the shower door open to the platform first, so that you can then separately just step down from the platform (i.e. two separate steps instead of one big leap).

So does a furring strip + cbu goes inside the window opening, butted against the window?
The window opening is much deeper than the depth of a window jamb.

[Elkski]

How do they fill the gap between square windows and the block? Stucco is like a porous stone. Was it painted with elasoimeric paint? That is what some people did to try to stop leaks. But it just hides the problem circa few years. That window has a good amount of freeboard above it for wind rain to saturate the stucco. No problem on outside of block but it comes down and hits that window opening that wood gets wet and it's history. Maybe even enough to run down inside if the block? I just don't see how that window is supported? Maybe they just have it supported be the expanded metal stucco wall and a few sideways screws into the block. They must make deep windows for block walls. I say a square window would be best or no window. No wood around it at all.

[Elkski]

You should spray the wall above the window with the hose and have wife take video with lights to watch the dripping

[arnav]

Originally Posted by Elkski

You should spray the wall above the window with the hose and have wife take video with lights to watch the dripping

I can see it happening a few times a year when it rain very heavily. Its being funneled to a bucket

The window in the shower which needs to be replaced is different from all the other windows in the house. I agree it is not clear how it is attached. Since it is coming off anyway perhaps its not worth concentrating on how it is constructed. Instead, maybe I'll try to show how the other windows are attached since I suspect the shower window will be replaced in the same way.

I went back to pictures I took when I re-drywalled the entire house. There is no wood under the bottom frame of the window, The window frame sits directly on a 3/4" mound of stucco/cement. There are tapcons directly from the frame of the window through the stucco and into the blocks (nuts!). On the sides of the window opening there is wood (see attached). There is just stucco on the opposite egress side (see 2nd pic). The gray caulking is mine and a few years old.

I need to demo the greenboard around other larger window in the dry area of the bathroom so I'll take better pics.

The reason i brought this up is because if you look at the interior view of the windows (last pic), it is clear the window frame is too thin to accommodate a CBU+tile.

Maybe I am over thinking it. When I speak to the window company maybe they can choose the right window if I tell them it is for a wet area which needs to support the thickness of CBU + tiles

[Elkski]

isn't wet wood a feast for termites? during a hard rain the bottom of the window an fill up and its supposed to drain out the weep holes on the outside.. not down through the tapcon holes. I wonder if your windows are sized so that the flange goes on the outside of the cinder block or do they just rely on caulking from the frame sides to the clock...
I think you are going to find you are the best expert over any window company or tradesman. they will do it as easy as possible. Just remember water has unique physical properties... like wicking and surface tension and it can defy gravity. add in wind and your hose becomes the bow of a ship