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Unread 01-11-2021, 12:30 PM   #1
Ande8414
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Schluter Membrane with Goboard?

Hi! Thanks in advance for your help as I haven't done a shower before! Wife and I feel confident we can do it. One big question we're trying to understand, I bought a bunch of Goboard for our shower, and now favoring the Schluter kit for the shower tray and membrane for the walls. Is it okay and does it make sense to do Kerdi membrane over Goboard? I keep thinking it would be nice to be double waterproof since the Goboard is so light and easy to work with, but haven't yet seen that combination used. And the Schluter kit comes with the membrane so may as well use it? Right now we have the plastic vapor barrier over the studs on the exterior wall, and then we're thinking Goboard, and then membrane. Please and thank you so much for your thoughts!
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Unread 01-11-2021, 02:40 PM   #2
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I have no experience with, or even seen, GoBoard. It appears it has more in common with Wedi than Kerdi. If it's a fleeced surface like Kerdi or Kerdi Board it might work. What sort or drain does GoBoard call for and what's their recommended method for floor pan?

In general, I will caution against a couple of things.
1. The train of thought that says 2 waterproofing layers are better than one is flawed, sometimes fatally. Pick a system, install it correctly and be happy. More is not better.

2. Understand that if you engineer your own system, any failure to perform will be completely on you. I like sure things when it comes to showers. If gambling, I like Blackjack.

I'm not a fan of foam pans for a couple of reasons. I prefer more slope than they provide and they're just too fragile and prone to damage than seems necessary.
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Unread 01-11-2021, 03:10 PM   #3
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Welcome, Robbie.

What Peter said.

I would also recommend you eliminate the vapor barrier material over the stud wall if you plan to use a direct bonded waterproofing membrane (Kerdi, etc.) on the shower walls.

If you want to use a foam board for your walls, I'd recommend you use one of the same manufacture as the membrane. KerdiBoard with Kerdi, etc.

If using Kerdi, I would recommend you use plain white drywall as your backing material and for absolutely sure remove the vapor barrier material.

And I'd create my sloped shower floor using deck mud rather than the foam tray.

But for gambling, I disagree with Peter. I prefer craps.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-18-2021, 09:36 AM   #4
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Wow you guys. I can't thank you enough. Really appreciate your advice and experience which makes me feel 1000 times better. While you were kind enough to read and reply to my questions, I simultaneously heard back from Schluter on the same question. They essentially said: "Hmmm....not sure, but I wouldn't do it. Use our Kerdi Board instead." They didn't offer their gambling preference but I'll go for penny slots. I'm now leaning towards Kerdi for the shower, looking for the best source for that, and going to keep the Goboard for now perhaps for walls near the freestanding tub. Then green board on the rest of the walls. Thank you!!
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Unread 01-18-2021, 10:33 AM   #5
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Robbie, I'd recommend against the MR Board ("green board") if you plan to use Kerdi membrane. Use the plain ol' white drywall. Some of the MR boards have a bit of a coating on the surface that could affect the bond of your thinset mortar.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-19-2021, 01:22 PM   #6
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Oooo super good to know. I wouldn't have thought of that. Thank you! That may be the route I'll go. Right now I'm leaning towards the Kerdi Board or Hydro-ban, and trying to find it nearby. Then I'll do greenboard on the remaining basic painted walls (with the vapor barrier still up behind those.) Switching gears, any plumbers on here or should I stick with tile topics? I'm considering two separate shower valves and heads next to each other. Teeing off the hot and cold 1/2" supply lines and run new separate 1/2" hot and cold to each valve. Would lose some pressure of course but wonder if it wouldn't be too bad. Not sure if I should have pressure balancing somehow, hammer arresting, air chambers, etc. Thanks so much!
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Unread 01-19-2021, 02:44 PM   #7
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Robbie,

There are a number of people here that are good with the ins and outs of plumbing. Feel free to ask questions.

I believe ideally you'd want to feed two 1/2" inlet shower valves from 3/4" supplies to maintain pressure and volume, depending on what the typical static WP pressure is, and the max flow rate of the heads. Don't know if you'd have to incorporate a balancing loop.

I think, though, that you might get by with 1/2". I say that because I have 1/2" supplies feeding an electronic shower valve with 2 outlets; a fixed head and a slide bar mounted hand held. Both heads max at 2 GPM but I have them reduced via ball valves to something closer to 1.7 ish. Static WP is just over 50 PSI. With both heads running there's no noticeable loss of pressure or volume.

If you're not experiencing water hammer now it's unlikely that replacing the old hand operated shower valve with a new hand operated one, or two, will result in water hammer. Still, pretty darn cheap insurance to add them.
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Unread 01-19-2021, 04:13 PM   #8
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GoBoard says you can use Kerdi Band, Thinset, and paint on membranes. So compatibility shouldn't be an issue if you decided to do a Schluter Pan + GoBoard walls. If you do a search on google using the phrases "GoBoard Schluter Hybrid" it should pop up.

I'm using GoBoard in my shower/tub and plan on using Aqua Defense on the screws and seams with mesh on the joints. I'm going back and forth with painting all surfaces. After spending a lot of time doing research, I felt that the GoBoard was better priced and more "idiot proof". Kerdi seemed to have more things that could go wrong. I also didn't trust the fact I'd get any warranty support as a DIYer so paying the premium didn't feel worth it.

Regarding your shower, we spent a lot of time looking at multi functional valves. They're all pretty damn expensive and can be pretty clunky. You can use multiple parts to save some money, but that can introduce other complications. We landed on Grohe's GROHTHERM SmartControl. We got the 3 function one (Shower, Handheld, and tub filler). We were able to save some money by calling around, but it was still expensive.
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Unread 01-19-2021, 11:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ande8414
...Then I'll do greenboard on the remaining basic painted walls (with the vapor barrier still up behind those.)
Unless greenboard is required by some local code, I wouldn't use it for anything. Seriously, even if it cost half that of plain, white drywall. I just don't like how mortar and paint has a harder time sticking to it.

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Unread 01-20-2021, 10:17 PM   #10
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Thank you thank you thank you! I really appreciate your experience and story, Dan! I wish I had 3/4" access but unsure how far back I'd have to rip up to find it. I really like your ideal to throttle your lines. How do you have those handles exposed in your shower to control them? Are they actually ball valves? 1/4 turn? I'll try to find pressure balancing shower valves and then probably go ahead with teeing off the existing 1/2" supplies. Thank you so much!

Ross! Thanks so much for your insight and research! I will check out the Goboard idea still, and hadn't considered the warranty support. That's a great point. Also excited to check out the Grohe products! Thank you!

Bubba! Great to know! I have never used it but thought I should in a moist bathroom. Even primer first struggles to adhere? I suppose I should get some good moisture-proof paint in here, too. Thank you thank you!!
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Unread 01-21-2021, 08:43 AM   #11
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Robbie,

My shower valve is atypical in that it is electronic. As such it is required that an access panel be installed in order to facilitate servicing the unit, and recommended that shut off valves be installed so as to not shut down the water to the rest of the bathroom, or the whole house, if servicing is needed. In addition to the 1/4 turn shut offs for the inlets I added the same on the outlets. The electronic control valve itself has no water volume control so I can, and do, throttle the outlets with the 1/4 turn valves. I just don't need that much water flow, and a side benefit is the shower heads run quieter.
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Unread Yesterday, 06:07 PM   #12
Ande8414
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Thanks so much, Dan and sounds like a super cool set up! Well done adding extra control. Sounds well worth it!

I'm closer on a decision on this and one other design aspect but think it best I start new and separate threads for them as I've strayed far from the original topic here. Thank you all so much!!
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Unread Yesterday, 07:49 PM   #13
Ande8414
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Two Shower Heads on One 1/2" Supply???

Hi All!

I appreciate that this may be improper to ask for plumbing help here but you're all so kind and helpful so I thought maybe its okay.

I want to run two shower heads next to each other on the same wall. It will be rare they both run together but still nice to have available. Currently we have a typical 1/2" copper supply. My thought is to just tee off the existing 1/2" supply lines and run up to two separate pressure balancing valves and then heads. My wife has her eye on two heads with 2.5 gpm flow each (5 gpm total). Would that still have decent pressure enough to enjoy? I feel like low flow heads around 1.8 gpm each would help maintain some better backpressure but wonder what you all think?

Separately, has anyone tried those latest low flow heads with the little filtration balls stating "200% more pressure!" Now that I'm searching for shower heads, those are the only ads on my social media.

Please and thanks so much for your thoughts!
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Unread Yesterday, 08:07 PM   #14
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A showerhead does not increase the pressure of the water! IF there's enough volume, the restriction of the nozzles will increase the VELOCITY of the water, which people incorrectly relate to pressure. The average 1/2" shower valve is usually rated to somewhere between 5-7 gpm, depending on the design, so with two heads, there MIGHT be no restriction...so, can't say for sure.

If the shower is already installed, first measure the actual volume out of the head, then, take the head off, have someone with a bucket and a watch, and see what your actual volume is which can change depending on how long the run is and how many fittings including changes of direction. If it exceeds 2x the single head (assuming they're the same), you'll still get acceleration through the jets...if it's less or the same, you won't and it will approach what you'd get out of a hose with no nozzle on it. Note, a valve often has two outlets, one designed as a full port for the tub spout for maximum volume, and a second one that already has a restriction in it. Should work fine for one head, but that restriction may not be enough for two. If you're planning a higher volume, then, if you're not planning this as a tub/shower, people will use the (lower) larger, full-port outlet to feed their showers, or drill out the restriction (careful! you might ruin the valve, depending on the design!).
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Unread Yesterday, 09:07 PM   #15
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Robbie, it'll help if you'll keep all your project questions on one thread so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered. A moderator can give it a more generic title any time you'd like to suggest one.
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