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Unread 07-31-2007, 01:41 PM   #1
GregO
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ADA shower pan

Hey Gang,

Been providing guidance to a buddy who is converting his first floor half-bath into an ADA shower/bath for his father. His contractor notched the upper middle-third section of his 2x10s to accomodate a wheelchair-accessible shower pan. Joists were notched approximately 2" down, basically turning the 2x10s into 2x8s. I told my buddy, given a 12 foot span with intact 2x10s, I wouldn't tile over those, so with notched 2x10s = 2x8s = absolutely NO TILE, not without a midspan support, which I suggested he have them do. El Deflecto seems to agree with me on this. They sistered 8' 2x4s to the top of the notched joists to provide an even surface for 3/4" CDX, but I don't accept 2x4s as providing much of any structure to the notched 2x10s. Joists are 16" OC.

Other thing is the "shower pan liner". They installed it so that if there is a preslope, it preslopes away from the drain weep holes. I told my buddy that that needs a preslope before the liner unless they're using a preformed Kerdi; they're not (yet).

Question is: Given 2x8's spanning 12 feet 16"OC, would you be ok using Ditra solely? I'm a Ditra fan, but I much better like the idea of a midspan support and Ditra on top of that. I'm trying to give my buddy guidance from a distance and told him I'm not wanting to be a PITA , but I want him to have the job done right and done once.

Thanks,

Greg
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Unread 07-31-2007, 01:52 PM   #2
jadnashua
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About the drain, for this type of a shower, they could do a scupper or trench drain so that it could be on the back side of the shower and thus the floor would be a single, sloped plane rather than a bowl. I'm with you, I think the floor is beneath the minimum. If they had sistered the joists with a 2x8 they would have been okay. See what the pros have to say.

The liner needs to be on a presloped floor and the weepholes need to be kept clear or there are likely to be problems.

If there isn't a threshold, then the waterproofing should come out beyond a hump or the entire floor needs to be sloped to the drain and the whole thing becomes a wet room. This makes it hard to set the toilet, since it is no longer level, though.
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Unread 07-31-2007, 06:09 PM   #3
GregO
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ADA shower

This site has gotten busier. Just bumping my original message, hoping for additional replies. Thanks. Greg
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Unread 07-31-2007, 06:41 PM   #4
chuck stevenson
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Greg,

You are correct. There is a guide in the Liberry for notching joists. A center support will help. Kerdi is for the shower pan. Ditra for the floor.
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Unread 08-01-2007, 05:02 PM   #5
GregO
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Question for Cx

Cx,

I'd appreciate your input. Thanks. Greg
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Unread 08-29-2007, 03:42 PM   #6
GregO
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bitter about contractor

I posted the below issues to the terrylove site to vent and get basic feedback. It is being dealt with, but is a nightmare. Thanks for reading!

Anybody know any good contractors in Accokeek, MD (right on the Prince George's county/Charles county line)?

A buddy of mine hired a "custom" remodeling firm (for premium $$$) to convert a half-bath to a full ADA bath and most everything they've done has been unprofessional, even the construction basics, although the electrical does seem to have been done properly.

Right:
1. electrical

Wrongs:
1. using no shower pan preslope
2. using only one-coat of redgard without reinforcing mesh around the drain and change-of-planes; redgard only extends from a few inches to 2 feet up the walls (to be tiled at least 6 feet high).
3. installing new walls that are visibly out of true at least 3/4" relative to the original wall.
4. notching 2x10 floor joists in the middle third of the span to recess the shower pan, making the joists 2x8s (spanning 14.5 feet) without additional support.
5. using sanitary Ts instead of Ys for horizontal DWV runs
6. installing 1.5" drain instead of 2" drain for ADA shower
7. no vapor barrier in the shower with drywall and paper tape/spackling on the entire shower wall surround.
8. installing the walls on top of the existing hardwood flooring instead of cutting the flooring away to allow the walls to sit atop the plywood subfloor
9. grouting the entire bathroom perimeter where the tiles meet the walls
10. contractor told us he would be pulling permits; no permits.
11. Tile contractor told homeowner he would use Redgard all the way to the showerhead. He didn't; he had his guys start installing 12x12s with AcrylPro instead of Redgarding as agreed upon first. Ridiculous.

Part of me wants to rip it all out and redo it, but I don't have time. This has been frustrating. There's more, but that's enough venting for now. Argh!!! Tomorrow morning we are meeting with all involved parties. We have been fighting this all the way to have it done properly, such as installing a midspan support, but...c'mon, that needs to be part of the job! Thanks for listening.

Greg
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Unread 08-29-2007, 03:55 PM   #7
river-wear
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I'd rather rip out new, clean materials than the moldy ones you'll have next year.

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Unread 08-29-2007, 09:17 PM   #8
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BTW, if you're serious about wanting to find a good pro, try posting over in the Professional's Hangout.
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Unread 08-29-2007, 09:19 PM   #9
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Greg

Please check your PM box.
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Unread 08-29-2007, 09:28 PM   #10
Mike2
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Greg, you missed one.
12. Then they installed 3/4" CDX over those notched joists.
By the way, I merged this thread with the other one you started on the same issues.
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Unread 08-30-2007, 01:05 PM   #11
GregO
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bitter

Mike,

Thanks for merging the threads. I know you were somewhat joking, but bang on - of course they used 3/4" CDX instead of BC. This whole thing makes me sick and I'm not the one subjected to it, my buddy and father are.

But, we did meet with the owner/contractor this morning; we're not dealing with subs anymore. He gave his word he would make this right; we'll see.

I'll post what happens. Thank you all who visit and use the JB forum! Thanks Rob Z and Dan. Yeah, even JB himself.

Greg

Last edited by GregO; 08-30-2007 at 01:21 PM.
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Unread 08-30-2007, 03:10 PM   #12
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No problem Greg, hope you all get the mess worked out.

Dan
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Unread 08-30-2007, 08:00 PM   #13
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Hey dan,

How have you been?
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Unread 08-30-2007, 09:51 PM   #14
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Sorry, Greg, somebody just pointed out that I missed this thread with a special request some weeks ago.

If you think I, personally, should look at something, you gotta tell me, eh? But you'll usually get plenty good advice without me. I'm not really sure what you wanted me to answer, truth be known. And doesn't look like it matters much now. Do let us know how it turns out, though.
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Unread 08-31-2007, 07:11 AM   #15
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Been doing swell, Rob, busy as all get out. Nothing unusual really. Ima fixin to git ready to launch into the next project but this one will not involve much tiling I'm afraid. It WILL involve my entire arsenal of tools though - so it's all good!

Hope all's been well with you and yours.

Dan
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