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Unread 04-07-2016, 03:12 PM   #1
freckles
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Sam's bathroom project

hi! i'm a new member in the planning stages of two projects

1) replace an old kitchen formica countertop with 12 x 24 inch porcelain tiles.
2) replace old acrylic tub surround with 3 x 6 subway tiles.

experience:
kitchen- i helped to replace one countertop- removed 1920's hexagonal tiles in a mortar bed and sink. shimmed, created cleat supports for 3/4" plywood overlaid with stainless steel sheet, sink installation and tiled backsplash.

bathroom- assisted with demo of shower and hanging backerboard, setting wall tile, tile cutting and a bit of grouting.

i've been reading everyday for hours since the weekend.

i plan to use JM goboard 1/2 inch for the tub walls and debating over using goboard vs ditra mat over the plywood for the countertop.

i have access to JM goboard and Finpin propanel foam backerboards. i picked goboard because it doesn't require special washers, is a bit cheaper and closer to my home.

i'm gathering a list of supplies and have a question about filling the joints on the goboard for the countertop. the jm installation instructions say to fill the joint gaps with thinset, alkali tape, embed with more thinset then 2 layers of liquid water proofing.

here are some questions

goboard is not a kerdiboard or ditra BUT after watching their videos, i'm wondering if using kerdiband with thinset over the joints and fastener locations give the same protection for the goboard?

goboard vs ditra $$$ on the countertop- i can get by with one 3x5 sheet vs having a lot of ditra left over. my countertop measure 90 x 22 only and will have a sink with attached drainboard, about 38" length.

for installing 12x24 tiles- would LASH spacer/leveler be appropriate? a demo showed it being used on floors. or just go with regular tavy spacers?

thank you
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Unread 04-07-2016, 04:07 PM   #2
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A good plywood base with a 1/4" of backerboard will be fine for a countertop, unless you plan for it to double as a swimming pool. And the backerboard (I used Hardibacker, though it is a but of a pain to "cut") is mostly to give the tile an ideal surface to bond to.
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Unread 04-09-2016, 02:55 PM   #3
freckles
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hi jeff,

the main reasons i'm choosing a foam backerboard is- lightweight, not dusty, easy to cut and waterproof- ideal for a petite newbie like myself.

i checked out the jm goboard at lowes yesterday, its stiff and their stock wasn't beat up (yay) they also had 1/2" kerdiboard(!) but nearly double the price.

i noticed kerdiband is sold on ebay for a lower price, is the online stuff legit?

i've been reading about thinset for two days- there's a lot of choices

goboard specs either modified or unmodified thinset.

will one kind of thinset be appropriate for both shower and countertop installations? shower- 3x6 subway, countertop- 12x24. there is a huge difference in tile size but the large tiles will be laid flat.

plan to use either ardex x77- lighter, fluffy and 3 hour pot life or custom prolite- also lighter, and available at hd. both seem to be well regarded on this site.
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Unread 04-17-2016, 06:44 PM   #4
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tub has NO tiling flange at all-ugh. will this idea work?

I won't be able to start the tiling projects until 5/1 but I did take a closer look at the bathtub through the access panel and see it has NO tiling flange/lip at all AND the tub seems to be shorter than the space- there's bullnose and extra tiling at both ends of the tub.

I believe it is an original tub from the 20's.

For the center wall, I will shim or sister the studs to bring it forward to the non-existent flange area.

For the ends, build a small ledge (there kind of is one currently made with a hunk of mud) to close the gap.

My original plan was to use kerdiband for the joints and wall to tub junction but JM Goboard rep does not recommend using keridiband with their product- had some wicking issues.

per Goboard, polyurethane and hydroban over the joints and fastener locations is all good.


For the NO flange. i've been reading all over this board and online and the best solution would be to remove the tub but that's not an option right now.

U.S. dept of energy put out a 12/2011 guideline for water management guidelines for showers and tubs and it goes along with other suggestions i've read-

install blocking along the tub wall and attach 6" self sticking flashing to the tub legs, corners and a continuous strip along the blocking.

would attaching the flashing on the tub up to the blocking work better?

the other grasping-at-straws-idea i had was to "create" a tiling flange by attaching the flashing to the edge onto the tub, fold it to itself to create the "flange" and down the back of the tub.

||__lip of tub. and then put the Goboard in front of the "flange"????
|

will that work?
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Unread 04-21-2016, 04:04 PM   #5
freckles
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hello, anyone?

countdown to demo is minus 9 more days but would like to get a plan in place for tiling prep.

how can i best waterproof the tub to wall junction of a vintage 1920's bathtub converted shower with no tiling flange

https://www.nachi.org/flashing-part2...adbetadesign=0

under headwall flashing diagram zoom view #3 and #4.

1) If i use 6" roofing tape between the tub and blocking/stud walls applied like #3 and #4, would that in effect create a waterproof junction/tiling flange for the foamboard to go over?


i plan to hydroban all seams and polyurethane the gap between the tub and foamboard too.

2) could this work or anyone have suggestions that could help with this less than ideal flangeless situation?

thank you in advance
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Unread 04-24-2016, 11:18 PM   #6
freckles
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digging pole to break up cast iron tub???????

i have a huge and deep 1920's tub in a tiny bathroom, with 3 tight 90 degree turns to reach the stairs, on the second floor surrounded by plaster walls and ceilings on the first and second floor and i'm kinda thinking about removing it

i've watched the sledgehammer videos and i envision lots of plaster repair in my future.

i've read about someone out in the universe using a digging pole to break up a cast iron tub and that it was MUCH easier, faster, cleaner and less physically taxing

only, they didn't describe how the digging pole was used nor is there a video.

Can anyone here describe how its done????

thanks!
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Unread 04-24-2016, 11:37 PM   #7
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Welcome, Sam.

If you're not willing to replace the tub with one that has a tiling flange, and if you're not willing to put an add-on flange on your current tub, there's really no good way to waterproof it sufficiently for use as a tub shower.

The closest I could recommend would be to use a band of a sheet waterproofing membrane and bond as much as possible to the tub surface with and adhesive sealant such as Schluter's Kerdi Fix or Noble's NobleSeal 150 or similar product. That band could extend to the inside as far as the edge of the tile installation and could be bonded with thinset mortar to your wallboard above the tub. Not at all an ideal solution and will be rather tedious to accomplish, but it might serve the purpose. Operative word there is might.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 04-25-2016, 12:44 AM   #8
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What CX said.

There are commercially available flanges as well, or use a strip of Kerdi or equal. Either way, do this

1. Attach "flange" to tub by placing it into a continuous bead of Kerdi Fix or similar sealant
2. Set tub with "flange" attached, running "flange" up wall, or onto backerboard if using surface applied waterproofing
3. Run another continuous bead of sealant between tub & "flange"
4. Set tile & grout.
5. Run a continuous bead of color matched silicone between tile & tub.

It's not an ideal situation, but if you seal everything properly as listed above, then you won't have any issues. Heck, even brand new cast iron tubs have little to no flange and they're installed without issue regularly. It can be done successfully if you use the right material and are careful.
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Unread 04-25-2016, 12:45 AM   #9
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Use a sledge. Cover tub with heavy blanket, where PPE, long sleeves & pants, shoes, gloves. Takes me about an hour or less, and I'm old. No wall repairs needed if you cover tub first.

I imagine with a heavy bar, you'd still be swinging and are more likely to damage walls with the bar. JMO.
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Unread 04-25-2016, 10:30 AM   #10
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found two digging bar references!

couldn't figure out how to quote from another post so i cut and pasted-

on THIS (!) site from april showers #5 comment from 8/11/09 re: cutting out cast iron tub

We just took out a cast-iron tub. My husband and a friend tried the sledgehammer route and broke the sledgehammer, and it was coming off in little pieces. Then I brought in the six-foot-long iron digging bar that I'd used the week before to reset our mailbox post. My 150-pound son was able to punch holes in it that quickly became cracks, and the rest went very quickly. So if you have a bad back or you're not built like a football player, you might try one. Cost is about the same as a sledgehammer.


I found this one one the ridgid forum Re: Cast Iron Tub Removal

Put down the sledge hammer and grinder
A digging bar is by far the safest and easiest way to break up a cast iron tub
Gotta know where to hit it. She'll break right apart into 4 easily handled sections

trying to figure out how its done. the ridgid forum poster never explained where to hit to "Gotta know where to hit it"

Quote:
No wall repairs needed if you cover tub first.
- The walls in the bathroom are plaster too but i was more worried about all the plaster cracks that would happen with the outside adjacent walls and ceilings on the first and second floor with all the sledgehammer action- its looks brutal from the online videos. my place is all wood frame with plaster walls.
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Unread 04-25-2016, 10:43 AM   #11
freckles
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i thought the commercial add on flange was crap

I will totally use one of the commercial add on flange kits thats available. I thought it was poo-poohed by the pros here because of the tape is weak and was trying to figure out an alternative.

JM goboard rep said their board and kerdiband do not play well- wicking action but hydroban is good.

If i end up keeping the tub ( i got another month extension to ruminate and plan), I will-

1) apply the add on flange kit and reinforce with polyurethane caulking
2) goboard in front of the flange and above it by 1/4"
3) fill the gap between goboard and flange with more polyurethane?
4) hydroban that junction

thanks!
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Unread 04-25-2016, 11:15 AM   #12
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I would imagine you'd use something like this with a pointed end to poke holes in the tub.

How you accomplish that is just with brute force, which is why you were cautioned about poking holes in the walls. You're basically weakening the structure of the tub, allowing it to be broken up much easier.

That bar can be heavy, and it's about six feet long, so it would be very easy to get away from you, and if you have a small bathroom, it may be difficult to get a running start with it. You might try a combination of the bar and a sledge hammer to break up the tub.
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Unread 04-25-2016, 12:57 PM   #13
dhagin
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Don't use any tape.

What is goboard?
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Unread 04-25-2016, 01:38 PM   #14
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http://www.jm.com/en/home-insulation...board/goboard/
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Unread 04-25-2016, 02:22 PM   #15
dhagin
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Thanks Kevin. Haven't touched any yet, but looks like a foam board with f.g. + waterproof layer over it. Interesting.

Not a big foam fan, but some are OK.
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