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Unread 08-03-2021, 08:58 PM   #16
cx
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Welcome back, HD.
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Originally Posted by HD
...if I go with say a standard size kerdi shower pan 32"/36" x 60", can it be tiled? Or will I need to go with a shower pan instead?
'Fraid that leaves some of us confused. A Kerdi shower receptor (I'm guessing you're talking about their foam tray?) must be tiled. That's what it's designed for. As for the second part of your question is my problem. For a tile shower you must have a receptor (or pan) of some sort.

C'mon, gimme more hints.
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Unread 08-06-2021, 07:01 PM   #17
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Great to see that you are still here imparting your expertise and wisdom! It was a bit late so my question wasn't worded well and I did some additional measuring.

The bathroom is a 5' wide x 11.5' long and we want to replace the tub with a walk in shower. Early on I calculated the floor deflection using the deflecto calculator and it said the floor isn't capable of handling ceramic tile. The original question was will the kerdi (or equivalent) prefabricated shower tray and uncoupling/waterproof membrane allow for tile on the shower floor even though the floor wasn't rated for ceramic tile?

The question maybe moot though as I remeasured the span and it comes in at 14', which gives me an L/380!
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Unread 08-06-2021, 08:12 PM   #18
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See post #6.

Up to you whether you tile the room or not. Your joists may have met building code when the house was built, presuming it was built within a code compliance jurisdiction at the time. That technically makes it suitable for a ceramic tile installation. Our Deflectometer is a more conservative tool and uses a full 50psf load rather than the 10psf dead and 40psf live loads used in code compliance calculations.

If there is a problem at the support beam, it would depend entirely upon the design and use of the adjacent rooms sharing the bathroom floor joists. As I said earlier, it may not be a problem at all, but it is a consideration.

And as I also think I said, I'd want a substantial subfloor in that bathroom with no joints in the vicinity of that support beam.

Building a shower there would require the same consideration as for a tile floor as far as I'm concerned. I would recommend you construct your sloped shower floor of deck mud - as I always do - rather than the foam tray, but If it's gonna work it should work with either one.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-17-2022, 08:43 AM   #19
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My wife and I decided it was finally time to tackle this bathroom and we are going to convert the tub/shower to walk in shower only. The current tub is 32" x 58" and we are going to go up to a 36" x 59" shower with an overall dimension of 42"x59" including the knee wall (36" tall x 24 or 30 inches wide) and curb. Will have glass installed with swinging door. Entry will be from the left with a right hand door attached to the right side wall.

The tile is a 12x24 "Lenox White Porcelain". We haven't seen the tile in person yet, so it is still up for debate, but what should I look for to know if it is a good quality tile?

https://www.flooranddecor.com/porcel...100942127.html

Attached are some drawings I made with the tile layout and the grout lines should be pretty close. Looks like I'll be able to avoid any slivers around the window and such.

There is a window, it isn't centered in the bathroom, and my wife would like to convert it over to glass block. For that we'll hire someone.

One layout concern is the right hand side (left too), is that the grout lines in the center aren't spaced like they are on the main wall and will only offset by about 6"s. While not shown, my wife would like a handle with the shower head on a slide bar so that may help distract a bit. Could also do something decorative in the middle, or is it okay?

Floor pan will be mud using the Schluter method.

Would love any feedback on design or anything I could be overlooking?
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Unread 01-17-2022, 09:13 AM   #20
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The grout joint offsets are mostly a matter of aesthetics, HD, unless the tile manufacturer specifically states to use a certain offset in order to minimize lippage issues. You'll have a better idea of what you can get away with once you can see how flat those 12X24's are.

One thing that did jump out at me was you mentioned entry to the shower will be on the left, but the shower valve will be on the right. Might be hard turning the water on and not get hit with a cold blast of water.

Re the window; although you intend to convert it to glass block the frame the blocks are in still needs to be waterproofed.
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Unread 01-17-2022, 06:53 PM   #21
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I don't see why you couldn't try to make the 6" offset work in the center wall section? It might upset the tile length continuity across the corner joint, but may be worth drawing out?

Another option might be to give up on the 1 full & 1 partial tiles layout on the side walls and accept every other row to have 2 partial tiles and 1 full tile.

Every tile layout probably will involve some sort of compromise, just pick the one you like the best.
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Unread 01-17-2022, 07:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
ss3964spd, aka Dan One thing that did jump out at me was you mentioned entry to the shower will be on the left, but the shower valve will be on the right. Might be hard turning the water on and not get hit with a cold blast of water.
Thanks for pointing that out. I edited my post to say entering from the right, but that may not be right either. It would be a right hand door with the hinges on the right wall and the door would be opened 90 degrees to reach the shower valve and turn on the shower. Hence you would be entering from the left. But you made a good point, maybe a left hand door and you enter closer to the shower head. One drawback is the toilet is to your left and with two careless kids, was worried they may swing the door open and into the toilet! Will definitely need to dig into it a bit more.

Phil - I'll definitely draw out some additional patterns. Last night I went through a bunch of different ones with various sized tiles, from 2 x 4 to 2.5 x 5 (they looked too funky).

Thanks again for the feedback Phil and Dan!
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Unread 01-18-2022, 09:45 AM   #23
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Though probably more expensive a by-pass type of sliding door system would handily solve the problem, HD.
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Unread 01-18-2022, 05:05 PM   #24
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Rearranged the layout and came up with this one. It'll be a few more cuts as there are some smaller filler pieces, but it is a bit more aesthetically pleasing.
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Unread 01-18-2022, 06:02 PM   #25
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Those 8" wide pieces in the center panel could be an issue. In my porcelain and ceramic tiles, the fabricated edges came with a rounded edge or chamfer. It may be difficult or impossible to perfectly match your cut edges to match those factory edges. Also, any surface paint or finish may not be represented through the interior of the tile.

I am a fan of tall niches. The alignment of the niche to the tile rows changed between your first photos and second, was that on purpose? In your first set of photos the bottom of your niche is aligned to a row of tiles, while the top notches into the tiles. In my bathroom, I made the top of my niche aligned to a row of tile and notched it into the tiles at the bottom. Sometimes wonder if I should have tried making my niche ~24" tall instead of ~27" tall so that I could have aligned it with both tile rows instead of just the top edge. I don't think I considered that or hadn't planned for that since I built my niche before I started laying out my tile patterns.

This is all aesthetics and personal choice though so do what you prefer.
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Unread 01-22-2022, 04:25 PM   #26
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The design is still up in the air, but demo was completed in the shower area today. The insulation you see is all that was there and there are places you can see our aluminum siding!

Next steps are getting a glass block window, raise the lowered section and check the drain. The tub drain ABC's overflow don't seem to be attached and move freely! Not sure if I broke it removing the tub or it could be connected via hose. Considering what I've seen in this house over the years, it's quite possible!
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Unread 01-22-2022, 04:28 PM   #27
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Did end up breaking the 3x3x3x1.5 DWV Tee when I sob'd the tub out.

Although since we are going to a shower, I would have had to replace it for a 2" anyway. Oh, they routed the vent up the same wall with our hvac return...
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Unread 01-23-2022, 08:45 AM   #28
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That's some interesting wall framing there, HD, I trust that wall isn't load bearing. What is the lowered ceiling all about?

Without at least tar paper separating the back of the siding from the insulation you run the risk that any moisture that accumulates on the back of the siding getting into the insulation. Siding isn't water proof, either, so wind driven rain can get through the lap joints and weep holes.
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Unread 01-23-2022, 09:41 AM   #29
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That looks to me like some sort of blackboard between his siding and studs, Dan. Probably a brazillian kinds of it out there, but it's an asphalt impregnated cellulose of some sort and made specifically for HD's application. Called blackboard in my area, or a much more derogatory term by the more bigoted framers. I've only ever tried it once, on a garage behind a rock veneer, but it seemed useful to the application. Does not require any sort of house wrap over it to be functional, according to the manufacturer.

Not seeing any reasonable way to repair what I see in his photos, though. Aside from removing the siding and replacing the sheathing, of course. And I can't conjure up any reason for it to be missing only in the areas shown.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-23-2022, 09:56 AM   #30
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Could be that type of board, cx, I'm intimately familiar with it as my house is sheathed with it, except at the corners.

Just didn't look thick enough to be that kind of board in HD's photos, but hard to tell from here. Looking at the photos again it does look like the siding is not hard against the studs so I think you're correct. Nevertheless, same issue.
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