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Unread 01-15-2022, 05:52 PM   #16
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The more important part of using PEX is the type of joining method used. If the solid metal clamping rings are used, those fittings have a much narrower diameter than the pipe and can restrict water flow. The type of PEX fittings that have the expansion ring such as Uphonor has fittings that are the same diameter as the pipe and no such flow restriction.
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Unread 01-15-2022, 06:12 PM   #17
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Owen, you're correct about the smaller ID when using the Type B PEX tubing, the ones Paul is referring to with the exterior clamping ring fittings. The Type A, on the other hand, uses a tool to expand the tubing, which is allowed then to use its memory to clamp around the fittings with no external ring at all.

There are pros and cons to each type and I have personally used only the Type B. You need special tools for each type; clamping tools for the Type B, expanding tools for the Type A.

While you are correct that you'd need to increase the size of your tubing if using the Type B in order to maintain the equivalent volume , I can say that I have done a number of remodel jobs where I replace existing copper tubing with the same nominal size Type B tubing and fittings with no apparent change in usability of the plumbing fixtures involved, including showers. I was initially concerned about the reduction in actual size, but have not found it to be a serious concern in most applications.

If you were to change your 1/2" copper to 3/4" Type B PEX, you would certainly be providing as much water as you had before.

Or you can save yourself the expense of buying tools for whatever PEX you decide to use and simply do your rerouting with new copper.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-16-2022, 09:07 AM   #18
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Even PEX type B will flow more water than your toilet valve, vanity faucet, or shower head will likely flow, unless perhaps if they are all running simultaneously. An exception would be a tub filler.
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Unread 01-16-2022, 04:44 PM   #19
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My concern is that you aren't going to be able to reach your shower valve from the entrance. That way you can turn it on and let it get to the hot water before you get in the shower.

Also, they make this tool if you want to use copper pipe in there but don't want to solder and don't want to spend $3000 for the Milwaukee version. It won't reach everywhere but it gets most places if you plan things right.
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Unread 01-16-2022, 07:49 PM   #20
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Mmmm, that scares me and I'm usually neigh onto fearless, Jim.
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Unread 02-15-2022, 04:52 PM   #21
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I wanted to post some new pictures. Here is what we have accomplished. The wiring has been tidied up. The floating framing is completed. The old copper pipe taken out and with PEX where needed. Rough in installed.

Next step - curb, drain and pre-slope.

Questions.
My drain is 1 1/2 pipe, there is a trap. Any advise on drain installation? I have to fill the hole with concrete, what is the best way to do this? Should I make it shallow so excavation in the future is easy? 2" worth of concrete?

Any suggestions on the drain type, any particular thing I should avoid?

Pre slope - drain is 41 inches from wall. 1/4 inch per foot, about 4 feet so 1 inch. How thick should the mud be at the drain?

Curb, Most curbs I see are 3 2x4's. Can I make it less?

Thanks for the help in advance.
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Unread 02-15-2022, 06:34 PM   #22
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1. I would make the patch the same thickness as the concrete slab.

2. Don't understand the question. If you're building a traditional shower receptor, you must use a clamping-style drain.

3. You want to measure from the drain to the farthest corner of the shower. The requirement is for the slope to be a minimum of 1/4" per horizontal foot.

4. The mortar should be a minimum of 3/4" thick at the drain. Folks frequently use less, but you have the option of making it at least that.

5. Your curb top must be a minimum of 2 inches above the finished drain height by code. By industry standards, it should also be a minimum of 2 inches above the shower floor. One is law, the other is best practice.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 02-22-2022, 12:04 PM   #23
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Questions

My next step is to finish the drain. I know i need a flange or clamping drain, I can buy an Oatley at Home Depot for $18, it has a chromed hair strainer. According to build.com I can spend a boatload more money on a drain. I would think a square hair strainer would be easier to tile around than a round. I am not sure how chrome plated stands up to age, we have water with a lot of calcium carbonate. Just looking for suggestions.

But..I do have other more serous questions.

1. When I put on the ABS drain to the ABS pipe and fill the hole with concrete, slab thickness. How long does it need to cure before I do my preslope?

2. I am planning on doing CBU walls. Lots of stuff on the internet not to do. Wicking up the CBU is an issues I guess. Some set the CBU after the preslope and pan, this is the John Bridges book. Others do the floor before they do put the walls in place and have a gap at the bottom. Another's method is preslope, PVC pan and floor, then to tiles the floor first, then installed the CBU and then set the wall tiles with a gap between CBU and floor tile. I read johns book and the CBU appendix in the back. I might have missed it but I did not find recommendations on the subject of gap at the bottom of the CBU to prevent wicking. Any comments?

3. What about waterproofing. Redgard or lowes equivalent?

4. Shower is in a basement with a concrete wall two thirds up. John suggest a vapor barrier over the studs. What would be suggested to finish the walls on the concrete? I read on one of the prominent insulation websites, they do not recommend a vapor barrier when insulating when the outer wall is concrete, I guess water comes out of the concrete and then has no place to go. Foam, fiberglass batt? Vapor barrier or not? Seal the wall?

5. Just want to clarify my understanding from Johns book in terms of process steps.

1. preslope. 2. PVC pan liner. 3. Finish curb. 4. install and finish CBU. 5. Tile walls and finish walls and curb and all hardware in place. 6. Dry pack the floor. 7. Tile the floor and grout. 8. Done.
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Unread 02-22-2022, 02:28 PM   #24
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Plenty ways to skin that cat, Owen. You'll need to pick the one that best suits your preferences and existing conditions.

1. If you mix your concrete dry enough, you actually needn't wait at all before placing a deck mud pre-slope over a small patch like that. Worst case, wait 'till tomorrow if you can.

2. Depends upon the CBU. If you use an actual CBU (ASTM 1325), you can bury the bottom in the final mortar bed. There is really no significant problem with wicking water in a properly constructed traditional shower receptor. There will be no standing water at the outer perimeter.

If you use a Fiber/Cement board instead (Hardiebacker, etc.), the manufacturer does not recommend burying the bottom in the top mortar bed.

3. If you're talking about the walls, any ANSI A118.10 direct bonded waterproofing membrane will be fine, but I don't know what "Lowe's equivalent" might be. And that presumes that you did not use a moisture barrier over the stud wall behind your CBU. Use one or the other, but not both.

4. You'd want to know how the outside of your CMU wall was treated. I'm guessing that portion, or much of it, is below grade. Was it waterproofed before back-filling? I'd want to determine how such walls are treated in basements that are used as conditioned space in your local area.

Bottom line: You must have a moisture containment system of some kind for your shower walls.

5. Again, up to you. I like the bottom row of wall tiles to be over the floor tiles, but what you have laid out will work, too.

My opinion; worth price charged.

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