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Unread 01-15-2010, 06:47 PM   #16
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Back to the subject at hand - is this work acceptable?

We have all been in places and seen work worse than this that has been paid for and accepted. That answer varies by location and expectation. If you are paying 50 cents /ft for install, I would call that pretty good. If you are paying the going professional rate, then its not good at all. I grew up in a lower class neighborhood of tradesmen. We had flat floors, all copper plumbing, crisp paint lines, and mud set tiles. I have been in million dollar homes that look like they had been tiled by Helen Keller and Stevie Wonder.

If that job isn't what you wanted and expected then it isn't acceptable. Did you express those expectations to the contractor before the job started? Perhaps the contractor has different expectations which would make him a poor fit for your install. What to do now? That's a whole nuther issue.
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Unread 01-15-2010, 06:57 PM   #17
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I'm using the mozilla browser and maybe I have the "text to link" add-on.
All I know is I can click on words and they pop up to pages.
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Unread 01-16-2010, 02:51 AM   #18
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Thanks for the welcome and quick replies everyone! Sorry about the pics and thanks to Joe for adding the pictures afterward.

The tiles we are using are Eilane porcelain. We got them at Home Depot at $30 for 15 tile, not good quality stuff so they could very well be different sizes.

We are not sure what the installer used as the underlayment, will have to ask. We will also lay out some new tiles on our flat vinyl floor to see if it is the tiles that are causing the lippage, I don't believe it is all due to the tiles however, some areas were quite bad...

The gap between the tub and tile is around 2/8". Is this too large to be considered acceptable?

The installer did not pull the baseboard, but did pull the shoe. Should he have pulled the baseboard completely off?

Quote:
Hey, although it looks like the tile you are using is pretty cheap, he should be able to deal with the difference in sizes by going with roughly 3/16" grout joint by snapping lines and fudging it out. The second to last picture is terrible.

Lippage appears to be around 1/16" which is within reason, but the guy didn't even pull the base,what's up with that? Is he putting in new shoe?

Should be okay by the tub after he caulks it.

Mind my asking what you're paying for this?
Hi Luke, my father seemed to have played around with the tiles tonight, I was not home and didn't have a chance to speak to him, but now the grout joints are a lot more consistent, ranges at around 1/8" to 3/16". The lippage is indeed around 1/16", with some areas at 1/8".

I am not positive on how much the contractor is charging (on the other hand, we have not paid yet so we definitely have leverage there), but it is at or near professional rate. It's not an instance where we asked our neighbour to tile our bathrooms for $100 as a favour.
I will find out tomorrow.

As mentioned before, my father seemed to have worked on the tiles today and the joints are now "okay", but there is still lippage over 1/16" in several areas and some of the tile doesn't "look" level (I didn't check it with a level, it's almost 4am as I'm typing this ) .
Now if the tiles are in fact not level and the lippage more than what is consider acceptable, will the installer have to ripped up the current tiles and start over or can he still work on the issues with the thinset, well, set?

Again, thanks everyone for your replies, info, and advice. We are very new to tiling so I suspect my folks didn't ask many questions beforehand, just the expectation that the floor would be pretty decent, level, and well, not crap.

P.S. Sorry if I used some incorrect tiling terminologies. Being a noobie and all.
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Unread 01-16-2010, 03:16 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris
The installer did not pull the baseboard, but did pull the shoe. Should he have pulled the baseboard completely off?
He should have in my opinion. Some do, some don't but I think the job looks much better if all the moulding is pulled and put back after the tile is laid. It also makes it easier to replace the moulding in the future.

Quote:
my father seemed to have played around with the tiles tonight, I was not home and didn't have a chance to speak to him, but now the grout joints are a lot more consistent, ranges at around 1/8" to 3/16".
This makes me a little nervous. Once the tiles are set they shouldn't be moved outside the working time of the thinset (please tell me the contractor is not using stuff out of a bucket to set the tile). If the contractor is using "pre-mixed thinset", "mastic" or anything that isn't mixed from a powder he should be shown the door (IMHO). And the further question is "Why should your father be trying to get the grout joints more even?" After all you are paying a professional to do the job the HO shouldn't have to "fix" anything. It really sounds to me like this guy is not a professional tile setter.

I don't know the exact specification on allowable lippage without trying to find it in a book but if it's more than the thickness of a credit card it's unacceptable. If the installer actually used thinset he mixed from a powder then the tile offending tile would have to be pulled up (it'll probably break). If he used stuff from a bucket then ALL the tile should be pulled up and you should thank him for his time and go get someone who knows the thinset method of setting tile. If mastic was used there's a chance you can clean them up in warm water and reuse them.

Brian
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Unread 01-16-2010, 03:47 AM   #20
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Quote:
This makes me a little nervous. Once the tiles are set they shouldn't be moved outside the working time of the thinset (please tell me the contractor is not using stuff out of a bucket to set the tile). If the contractor is using "pre-mixed thinset", "mastic" or anything that isn't mixed from a powder he should be shown the door (IMHO). And the further question is "Why should your father be trying to get the grout joints more even?" After all you are paying a professional to do the job the HO shouldn't have to "fix" anything. It really sounds to me like this guy is not a professional tile setter.
Hi Brian,

The stuff the installer used was mixed from powder. I'm not positive on what brand he used though. I'm also not positive on what my pops did to "adjust" the tiles, I'll speak to him tomorrow.

The next question as to why my dad was trying to do it himself, that's just his personality I guess. He give people one chance to do things, and if the task wasn't good he gets frustrated and starts trying to do things himself.
I 100% agree with you though; if we paid for a job to be done we shouldn't have to fix it, or at least talk to the installer first and then see how things goes.

I dunno about this guys credentials, but I also don't think he's mainly a tile setter by trade.
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Unread 01-16-2010, 08:53 AM   #21
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Kris,

If your dad was messing with the grout lines by moving the tiles then he broke the bond between the tile and the thinset. And if he broke the bond then the tiles will be loose and not "cemented" to the backerboard.

Stop your dad from messing with the tile and get with the installer b/4 any more work is completed. If you don't the installer will say "you" broke the bond of the tile with the thinset (cement). Also, do you not know how much the installer is charging you because they haven't told you yet or because they told somebody else in the house (dad, husband, significant other, ......)?

Pat
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Unread 01-16-2010, 01:56 PM   #22
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Apparently the installer came last evening and did some of the corrective work. The dug up a few pieces of tiles that were not level and installed new ones, it does look better than what I first saw yesterday though.

I didn't personally know how much the install was, my folks did though. Initially they were supposed to do all 3 of our bathrooms, but now they are just going to finish the one that was started.
Because we were not satisfy with the work, the installer is now asking $130 for tiling the bathroom and installing a new toilet (I know installing a toilet is very easy, but its my folks house and not my decision ). The bathroom floor is around 25sq. ft, I think it's fair for the work completed.

I'll update tomorrow with the finished results!
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Unread 01-16-2010, 02:16 PM   #23
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Dude got out of bed for $130? That's kinda like asking a neighbor to do it for $100 as a favour...

I'd make sure the toilet doesn't leak if I were you.

The tile doesn't have to be level, just flat.
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Unread 01-16-2010, 02:23 PM   #24
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thats why it looked like that
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Unread 01-16-2010, 03:58 PM   #25
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That and HD... For $2.00 a sq. ft., you shoulda done better than those tiles..
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Unread 01-16-2010, 05:18 PM   #26
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Did you say $130 and he installed tile backer, tile and a toilet? Id say you got a steal. That is by no means a pro install price around here. You could barely rent the wetsaw for that. Is this guy licensed or is that required where you are?
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Unread 01-16-2010, 05:27 PM   #27
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130? Wow.

Where are you Kris?
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Unread 01-16-2010, 07:28 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris
Because we were not satisfy with the work, the installer is now asking $130 for tiling the bathroom and installing a new toil
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Unread 01-16-2010, 10:51 PM   #29
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The floor is now done. Final price was $150 for the one bathroom (we supplied the tiles and toilet), the original price was $250 for each bathroom, so $750 total.

The installer acted as if we never agreed on the $130 and asked for the original $250 when he completed the floor, we expressed our dissatisfaction and reminded him of the $130 we had spoken of and told him we will offer him $150 instead. He annoyingly took it (I guess understandably on his part from the responses here lol) and left without going over the floor or toilet install with us.

I'm not sure about the tile backer. I wasn't home when the installer was here, just was told of what happened by my parents. I don't remember seeing any scrap of wood though, so it's possible that there wasn't one. I also don't think the installer sealed the grout like originally agreed upon before work started either. We'll do that tomorrow.
He also reused the old baseboard shoes.

Now whether the guy is licensed, I think so. Will confirm tomorrow. He did have a whole bunch of tools and came in a big work van, not that unlicensed people can't have any of those.

I will post some pictures tomorrow.

Have a good night everyone.
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Unread 01-17-2010, 09:40 AM   #30
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FYI Most grouts require 72 hours before you seal them.
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