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Unread 01-31-2019, 01:15 PM   #76
jadnashua
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Ardex Liquid Backerboard is probably your best bet for filling and flattening. It doesn't require a primer and can go to a feather edge. Plus, it's designed to be tiled over.

Don't remember what you'd planned for your tile backer. If you're using cbu...install that first, then deal with flattening afterwards otherwise, screwing into the stuff you'd use for flattening may crack and create problems. The thinset and cbu may flatten things a little bit, lessening the need for the more expensive filler to complete the job.
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Unread 01-31-2019, 01:38 PM   #77
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Floor is 3/4" plywood over planks. Plan was Mapei Planipatch to flatten, followed by ditra, kerdi for joints and around tub and tile.
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Unread 02-03-2019, 10:38 AM   #78
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Finally got to making this happen.

Put a jack post under the center of the of the good sister and tightened it up just enough to take some of the tension out of the joist. Predrilled 3/16" pilot holes through both joists but not into the end-grain of the header (FastenMaster recommendation), countersunk with a 5/8" spade bit, and drove 2 Fastenmaster HeadLok's into the header.

Wanted to glue and strap the crack back together. Put another jack post under the crack in the joist to try to close it up. It closed up by maybe less than 1/8" but mostly it just resulted in further jacking of the joist. Tightened the first post to the first level and left it as is. Overall, the whole thing maybe went up by 1/8" at most, don't see any cracks upstairs. Fastened a 3' simpson strap over the crack anyway. It might add a bit of strength if the wood around the crack is that stubborn.

Glued and screwed a 2x8 to the good sister. Maybe 1-1/4 tubes of PL premium over the 10.5' span. Clamped it. Predrill 1/8" through new and old to avoid splitting, drove 3" SPAX powerlags. It's still sitting on the jacks with the clamps on waiting for the glue to finish setting:
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Issues:
  • I got an impact driver to drive the powerlas and I've never used it before. I played with it a bit and it seemed straight-forward enough but it likes to strip screw holes in the old wood. It spun a few of the smaller simpson screws when putting up the straps and I think it spun a few of the powerlas as well. Some grab hard enough to sink the washer head into the new wood but some will just continue turning. I added a few extras near the suspect spots.
  • The HeadLok didn't pull everything tight when driven into the header but clamping did so now there's a small gap (~1/16?) between the joist and end of the header. It's held with 4 10d nails and 2 HeadLoks but I could probably fit a 4" joist bracket in too (if I pulled out the nails). The other side of the header has 6 nails holding it in place so I decided not to add the HeadLoks.

I was thinking of cutting the short joist 1-1/2" short of the header, doubling up the header, fastening it in place with 8" headlok's through the 3 2x8s on one side and 6" headlok's on the other, then doubling up the short joist and attaching it to the new header piece with a joist hanger. Is that over-doing it?

Any comments would be appreciated.
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Unread 02-04-2019, 06:12 PM   #79
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There is a way to cut each end to fit an oversized joist into position. Been too long for me to remember how to do it. As memory serves, the cuts on each end are different. When finished the cut off wedges get glued back in when finished. That's all I remember.

Perhaps someone on Fine Homebuilding can tell you.
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Unread 02-18-2019, 07:09 PM   #80
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Alright, basically finished. All the joists under the bathroom are now doubled up. All the sisters are southern yellow pine, loctite PL premium glued and 1/4"x3" SPAX powerlags screwed. 1/8" pre-drill and staggered 12" spacing recommended by SPAX.
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Cross bridging was removed in joist bays where the sisters went and replaced with solid blocking held in place with joist hangers and glue. I left the old cross bridging where I didn't have to disturb it. I can replace it later and I didn't want to make any new holes that I didn't have to.

For the header, the side with the cracked joist got 2 6" HeadLok's no problem. Predrill through the joists but not into the end-grain per manufacturer recommendation. I drove one into the other side and the header cracked so I stopped there. There are 8 nails already holding it in place so it's alright. I'll keep an eye on it and if it deteriorates I'll trim the joist that ends at the header and double up the header. That joist got a joist hanger as well.

Can't really say the floor above seems a whole lot more solid but it's pretty hard to judge just by doing a jig. I'm considering it done with potential for later improvement. Sorry I really beat the hell out of this topic. Worried about compromising the structural integrity of the house. Thanks to everyone for their help. Hopefully, I haven't driven everyone away from the thread because the next post is actually about tiling, not carpentry.
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Unread 02-18-2019, 08:01 PM   #81
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Ok, back on the main road...

This is what's above that floor structure:
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3/4" plywood glued and screwed over 1x12 floor planks. It's not too bad out of flat. Curves with the sagging joists but actually a bit less than 1/8" over 4 feet with the lowest point right about in the middle of the floor span.
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There are a few spots where that 1/8" spacer fits under the level. Plan was to flatten it out with Mapei planipatch or similar (henry 549, etc). Mapei said to fill the seam between plywood sheets so do the big joint and the two short ones for the toilet flange patch.

There are two tricky parts:
  • The toilet flange and sewer pipe are cast iron. They were height matched to the old mud bed and two layers of tile so it's 7/8" off the current underlayment.
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    The plumber talked me out of resetting it so I'm building up to it. If I put 3/8" plank tile over Ditra or Ditra XL, I'm either left with a 0.2" gap below the flange or have to grid tnhat much off the top of the tile to make it fit under but it also depends on what angle I use to comb grooves in the mortar (and I don't know how realistic my calculations are). Also I'll have to wait and see how much the floor patch will raise the floor. Is any gap under the cast iron flange acceptable? The pipe is pretty solid and I can shim under the flange. Should I just expect to under-build it and then tell the plumber to reset the flange so it rests on the tile?
  • The tub has 1/2" plywood under it. The old planks could use something over them but I wanted to set the tub lower than the main floor so it'd be easier to waterproof that edge. I drove down to the lumber yard intending to get 3/8" for it but decided more is better so now it's barely 1/4" lower. The bottom of the tub apron is of course rounded but also recessed in and curved up in the middle. Don't know if it's some weird americast design or it got warped from all the moving, resetting and being attached to the wall. SO the gap between the edge of the 3/4" ply and the tub apron in the same plane varies from 1/2" in the middle to 1/4" on one end and 1/8" on the other. Also the bottom of the apron in the center isn't sitting on the ply but I do have it shimmed up and the tub is set in cement so it's solid.
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    The gap between 3/4" plywood and the 1/2" ply sheet under the tub is about 1/8". Plan to finish that joint was run ditra up to the tub, fill joint with kerdi-fix, and kerdi-band over that as they show in their instructional materials. However, that's a pretty wide gap and seems a bit much for the kerdi-fix. Any advice on how to handle this? (other than get a tub that isn't warped? I'm wishing I replaced it with a freestanding one to avoid all the waterproofing complexities) Can I just fill that gap with the feather patch same as the seam between 3/4" plywood panels, ditra within 1/4" of the tub apron, and seal with kerdi-fix + kerdi-band? Leave a 1/8" expansion joint along tub using gasket material?

Any advice would be appreciated.
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Unread 02-19-2019, 05:52 PM   #82
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The pictures above don't really show the gap well. This is what the gap looks like in profile around the center of the apron:
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The plywood spacing is pretty even all the way across but the tub is farthest back in the middle. The bottom of the tub apron is sitting on spacers but only the ones at the ends are tight.

Not sure how to handle this. Please help.
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Unread 02-22-2019, 05:40 PM   #83
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How about if I fill the 1/8" expansion joint between the sheets with sill gasket up to the top of the 3/4" plywood and fill the rest of the large gap with floor leveler compound like mapei planipatch? I was thinking fill just the space between sheets and lay gasket against tub but that's getting too complicated. This way I can run some of the patch under the tub edge for extra support.

I even updated the diagram! Sorry, couldn't get the colors of the thinset and kerdi-fix quite right. Otherwise sound reasonable?
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Unread 02-22-2019, 07:59 PM   #84
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You won't find it in any book, Paul, but you can probably make that work.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 02-26-2019, 10:41 AM   #85
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Thank you, CX.

I asked Schluter about this (for completeness) and they're saying to just fill that whole depression with kerdi-fix. Does that sound right? Seems like a canned answer, any gap gets a kerdi-fix recommendation even if it's 1/2" wide. Hard to get a clarification since it's one email address but the message gets forwarded to a new person each time.

I'm not losing sleep over this. It'd probably be fine if I fill that gap with floor patch, caulk or a wood insert.
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Unread 02-26-2019, 02:11 PM   #86
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KerdiFix is neat stuff...very strong, slightly flexible to accommodate bonding different materials with slight variations in coefficients of expansion, permanent, no VOCs, cures under water. It cures at about a rate of 1/8"/day, so don't rush it.
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Unread 02-26-2019, 03:33 PM   #87
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After further prodding, Schluter pointed out that their ditra installation handbook states that any substrate leveling should be done prior to installation of Ditra and stated that the gap in front of my tub would fall under substrate preparation and should therefore be filled by other (unspecified) means.

So it's back to plan A: put sill gasket between plywood sheets, fill the rest of the gap with floor patch and hope the tile-to-tub joint won't be adversely affected by being 1/2" away from an expansion joint.
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Unread 03-15-2019, 09:36 AM   #88
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Bostik Ditra-Set vs Schluter All-Set vs Schluter Set

<long post clipped>

I'm laying 6"x36" porcelain tile over ditra and I'm a novice at setting tile. I have a choice between Schluter ALL-SET (or posibly Schluter SET) now or Bostik Ditra-Set a week from now. All I can find about Schluter All-Set on the forums is that it's tough to work with. Is the Bostik worth the wait or should I just go with the All-Set? Is the All-Set that much more trouble to work with that someone that doesn't know what he's doing shouldn't mess with it?
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Unread 03-15-2019, 08:37 PM   #89
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The 1st gen run of all set was junk...that being said I've used about 20 bags of the reformulated allset in the last month and it really wasnt that bad at all. It's not my favorite product but it does what it's supposed to. Adhere to the directions to a T and it's a good product. That means 18 minutes to mix a batch...5 mix, 10 slake, 3 mix
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Unread 03-15-2019, 08:59 PM   #90
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I've not use the All Set, but the Bostik Ditra Set is a very nice pookey and I'd try to find some.
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