Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Professionals' Hangout

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 05-10-2008, 11:41 AM   #1
Dan Clark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 376
Dewalt D24000 Tips, Tricks, and Problems

Since the D24000 is a saw used mostly by professionals, I thought this would be the right forum for this thread.

The purpose of this thread is for D24000 owners to post usage tips and tricks, and problems they had with the saw and how they solved them.

Since I've had some problems with mine and believe I've solved them, I'll go first.

The Problem
Long cuts not straight or square:

- While crosscutting 18" limestone, the first 2-3 inches (the end farthest away from the fence) were as much as 1/16" out, then the cut straightened out a bit.

- Some cuts were fairly consistently out of square by as much as 1/16" to 1/32" out. By "consistently", I mean that the cut was straight, but was off square by 1/16" to 1/32" in the back and touched my square in the front. I.e. instead of 90 degrees the cut was maybe 91 degrees.

- I also found that the cutting bed could be twisted left and right when just two sets of wheels were on the rails - the cutting bed was all the way forward or back. By twist left and right, I mean when you put your hands on the fence, and pull one way with one hand and push the other way with the other hand, it would twist more than 1/16".

The Cause
The ultimate cause of the problem was that the bed wheels were not aligned. When I flipped the bed over and placed a straight edge along the side of the left guide wheels, I found the straight edge rocked on the middle wheel!

See first two pics attached. The first pic shows front wheel with the straight edge flush against the middle wheel and back wheel. For comparison, the second pic shows the straight edge pressed against the front wheel and middle wheel. This is what it should look like if all wheels are in alignment.

With the D24000's design, the front wheels roll off the rails when all the way forward. And the rear wheels roll off the rail when all the way back. If the wheels are not in perfect alignment, the cutting bed immediately twists one way when the front wheels roll off the front of the rails and the other way when the rear wheels roll off the rear of the rails!

The Solution
To solve this, I used several layers of aluminum foil to create a quick and dirty "shim" to move the front wheel in alignment with the rear two wheels. (See last pic.) It's not elegant, but it does the job.

Since the front wheel is also a little stiff, I think the bearing is failing. When I have a little free time, I'll install a new wheel assembly (or have Dewalt do it) and then reshim with proper shimming material.

The downside of this is that I had to realign the saw again. The upside is that, after re-alignment, the cutting bed slides smoothly, and cuts are straight and square.

Regards,

Dan.

p.s. Dewalt Service checked out the saw. They either didn't catch this or didn't do anything about it.

p.p.s I think they should have made the track about 7 inches longer on each end and use only two sets of wheels (not three). Then they wouldn't have had this problem. Of course that would make the saw rails about 14 inches longer, so they might have caused other problems.
Attached Images
   
__________________
Dan

I am... Tileless in Seattle
Dan Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 05-10-2008, 11:52 AM   #2
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 88,580
There are a number of rather lengthy threads out there about that saw, Dan. You might try just typing D24000 in the search box and start there.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-10-2008, 12:23 PM   #3
Dan Clark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 376
CX,

All of the other threads contain posts where the D24000 is mentioned in passing or are saw reviews. I've read those. None of those other threads mentioned the problem I had (I looked)

Also, in another thread I raised a general question about alignment and cutting accuracy and discussed my D24000 problem. But the title and focus of that thread was cutting accuracy.

AFAIK, there are NO threads like this one.

The purpose of this thread is to be a single place where people can 1) post tips and tricks, and 2) post problems and get solutions for the Dewalt saw. I had a problem, I found the cause, I wanted to share the solution. I hope others will do the same.

Regards,

Dan.
__________________
Dan

I am... Tileless in Seattle
Dan Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-10-2008, 03:32 PM   #4
tileguytodd
Official Felker Fanatic
 
tileguytodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Northern MN
Posts: 14,398
Hi dan, Ive mentioed shimming cart wheels before several times for several different types of saws.........Ive used Plastic Bread bag closures......Styrene sheets and even Bailing Wire formed and pounded flat.........Thats for some real fine tuning.

Now, I would say that Off 1/16" in 18" isnt going to send up any flags for most situations but Yes, it can be a problem for inlaid matt borders etc.

For a 12 x 12 this would likely be closer to 1/32 however and if you need to have Any grout joint so perfect that it cant take 1/32" your in the Wrong Business!!!
Part of the inherent beauty of a Ceramic Tile floor is that it is a Handlaid Floor..small variations are an inherent part of its natural beauty and charm.

Obvious gaffs ruin a floors appearance yes, but subtle variations Do Not!!

This IS Not A Perfect Lines Stamped out floor, It is Handlaid TILE and no matter How hard you try, no matter how much of a perfectionist you are, In the end there WILL be variations because it is the nature of the product, As it Should Be!!!

I dont EVER want my Tilework to LOOK Like Linoleum or WALLBOARD but the manufacturers of Those products keep trying to make their products look More and More Like my tile floors................

BUT, They can not capture the look and you know why???

Because you can not mass market the little variations that make Handlaid,HANDLAID!!!
__________________
TIP YOUR TILE MAN, His Retirement plan is not nearly as lucrative as yours and his waning years will be far more painful to boot.
He gives much so you can have a Beautiful Home!!
tileguytodd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-10-2008, 03:37 PM   #5
duneslider
Utah Tile Contractor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Riverton, Utah, Salt Lake City
Posts: 2,268
Todd ,
I wish all my customers felt this way. I don't run into this quite as often with tile as hardwood but still, I just wish they understood it wasn't perfect nor could it be.

Dan, I found blade selection has a huge impact on the cut. The stock blade in my opinion sucks. I will have to check my wheels and see if they are aligned.
__________________
Bryan

EX Tile Contractor
Positive Tile and Stone
Salt Lake City, Utah
duneslider is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-10-2008, 05:02 PM   #6
Dan Clark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 376
Todd, Bryan,

Good points. I agree about the original blades. Since I'm a sophisticated sorta guy, my erudite opinion is - they suck!

The Dewalt Service dept gave me their new blade free. Even the new one isn't that great. I also have a Pearl porcelain blade that I like and a Master Wholesale tile and marble blade. It's pretty good too, but slow. Once I got the front wheel shimmed, I got nice straight, square cuts.

Regarding subtle variations, I'm there on that one. That can add character. However...

The tile I'm using currently is 16X24 honed limestone with a very slight beveled edge (maybe 1/16" bevel) and I'm planning a 1/16" grout line. If the cut was off by 1/16" on parts of the tile, I think it would look pretty bad. Some parts of the grout line would be twice as wide.

The next batch of tile will be honed and tumbled travertine. It's kind of rustic. Grout line variations won't show much and could easily add lots of character.

Regarding the shimming, I've obviously passed right over those posts. I guess "field maintenance" (AKA fixin' what the manufacturer messed up) is par for the course.

Thanks,

Dan.

p.s., regarding lippage, I'm going to use TLS to (hopefully) get rid of it. We'll see. I'll post the results in my project thread.
__________________
Dan

I am... Tileless in Seattle
Dan Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2008, 08:21 PM   #7
Tulsa Tile Setter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 14
Extending the Dewalt's Cutting Range:

Now I can't claim this one: We had a customer show up with 24x24 porcelain instead of the promised 18's (and of course it's diag) and my setter calls me and says, "Hey, if I take this saw apart I think we can cut this 24x24 on the 45 without having to turn each piece.

I guess he takes the Dewalt provided allen wrench, detaches the left rail, moves it back by a couple screw holes and there you have it, a simple little fix for that emergency need to cut huge tiles on the diagonal when you don't own a nice bridge saw and your grinder won't make the cut.

I showed up to check on them a day later, and it's pretty cool looking actually, the cart kinda wobbles a bit when all the way back, but with a little care, it did the trick for this little job.

PS. Not sure I should tell dewalt about this one.

PPS. I also had major issues with the dewalt provided blade being, ahem...less than par. There, that was put nicely.

Joel
JR Tile LLC
Tulsa Tile Setter is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2008, 08:30 PM   #8
Dan Clark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 376
Joel,

Regarding, "I also had major issues with the dewalt provided blade being, ahem...less than par. There, that was put nicely." Yes, that's an excellent choice of words. You're the soul of discretion!

Thanks,

Dan.
__________________
Dan

I am... Tileless in Seattle
Dan Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2008, 11:01 PM   #9
tweeker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 25
I just did a job cutting 36"x12" porcelain bamboo print tiles on my dewalt.
It was like ripping a 2x4.
tweeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-13-2008, 12:17 AM   #10
Higher Standard Tile
Tile and Stone Contractor
 
Higher Standard Tile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Maui
Posts: 3,635
For you guys that have used this saw alot, how does the motor compare with the Baldor found on Target/Felkers? I am considering adding the Dewalt for some of its nice features, but I've never found a tile saw motor that has the same power as a Baldor.

Last edited by Higher Standard Tile; 05-14-2008 at 01:02 AM.
Higher Standard Tile is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-13-2008, 08:07 AM   #11
Northwest Tile Guy
Registered User
 
Northwest Tile Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 270
I own a Dewalt and my partner owns a target. I have cut on both saws and I would say the target has just a little more power, but it wasn't like I was blown away by the difference. Target is a nice saw and will do just about anything my dewalt will do except for the plunge cuts.
__________________
Chad
Northwest Tile Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-13-2008, 07:50 PM   #12
gabec55
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Snowmass, CO
Posts: 48
Water control

The Dewalt motor is less powerful than the target, but with a sharp blade the difference is minimal. The best thing about the dewalt is how much better it controls water, most of the water is recycled back into the pan. I do not use the 22.5 and 45 degree miters often but when I do I really appreciate that feature. Plunge cuts are real handy and my 55 year old back likes the Dewalt best.

Gary Beck
gabec55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-14-2008, 06:25 AM   #13
tileguytodd
Official Felker Fanatic
 
tileguytodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Northern MN
Posts: 14,398
Quote:
The Dewalt motor is less powerful than the target, but with a sharp blade the difference is minimal.
What constitutes Minimal is different things to differnt people.

I had the saw sitting alongside a Felker Tilemaster.
Both Brand New cutting 13" diagonal porcelains.

2 guys cutting tile in half.

The felker cut just over 20% faster than the Dewalt.

Minimal???? Depends on Who you are I guess

You guys who want to stack the dewalt up next to a production saw are really reaching.
Its very good at what it does and what it was built to do...NO More and NO Less.

It is NOT a production saw, Never has been and never will be!!

Use words like minimal, I'll put percents on what the word means in this case.....I can take it a bit further.
20% in a 10 hour day is 2 hours!!!
8 hours in a 40 hour week
400 hours ( or 10 weeks work) in a 2000 hour ( 50 week)year.

Starting to see the difference???

Its a good saw, but lets not make it into something its not!!!
__________________
TIP YOUR TILE MAN, His Retirement plan is not nearly as lucrative as yours and his waning years will be far more painful to boot.
He gives much so you can have a Beautiful Home!!
tileguytodd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-14-2008, 06:49 AM   #14
tileguytodd
Official Felker Fanatic
 
tileguytodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Northern MN
Posts: 14,398
OK, let me put this another way that Most experienced installers can Understand readily.

granite job....Hallways door jambs stairs etc etc call it 15,000.00 job and Lots & lots of cutting.
15 days with A Dewalt.............................1000.00 per day
20 % = 12 days ( BUT lets call it 13) with a Production saw..1150.00 p/d

So now, I have 2 extra days ( at least) for another JOB....or using a production saw I got me a FREE 2 day vacation.

Your Call!!!

I'm not saying DONT OWN A Dewalt..............I'm saying KNOW when and when not to use it.

You wouldnt use a 3/8" drill when a 1/2" Hammer drill is called for would you?
You wouldnt grab your RUBI Ts40 for a Locker room of 2x2 porcelain tile WOULD YOU??
Ofcourse not, you'd grab your old superior or a newer Breaker board with travel breaking capability.

There are times when the Dewalt saw Shines but because it doesnt weigh much making it easier on us, some tend to Use it for jobs they probobly shouldnt be and prematurely killing the saw.

What is the saw Best At??? You know the answer......Large Diagonal work and Jobs where water control is crucial.

A Production saw is your Sledgehammer
A Dewalt like a framing hammer
A lil TM75 or grinder motor type saw like a 16 oz finisher

3 tools.........good at 3 different things........None capable of everything at 100% But combined capable of 98% of your work at 100% efficency

The 2 % is a rail saw but I aint spending 2500.00 for 2%.

When however that 2% becomes 7 or 8 or 10%........well then we got another saw to add to the rack dont we!!!


OR you can use the Dealt as your DO IT ALL saw.
Be ready to deal with down time and Premature death. And at the cost of these saws it simply doesnt make sense to me........BUT, its your money. Me, I'd rather carry a heavy saw there and back and Buy me 2 extra vacation days........But thats Me!!
__________________
TIP YOUR TILE MAN, His Retirement plan is not nearly as lucrative as yours and his waning years will be far more painful to boot.
He gives much so you can have a Beautiful Home!!
tileguytodd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-14-2008, 07:53 AM   #15
Kx250
Registered User
 
Kx250's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by tileguytodd
What constitutes Minimal is different things to differnt people.

I had the saw sitting alongside a Felker Tilemaster.
Both Brand New cutting 13" diagonal porcelains.

2 guys cutting tile in half.

The felker cut just over 20% faster than the Dewalt.
Was the same blade on both saws? or were both using their stock blades?
__________________
High Country Tile

Jesse

Somewhere in the middle of nowhere Wyo, next to a Volcano .
Kx250 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:17 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC