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Unread 10-31-2019, 05:21 PM   #31
jlbos83
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There are a bazillion square floor tiles that one can use on the walls, and 2x2s for the floor.

You might be happier staying away from natural stone in the shower, but of course that's up to you. But it generally brings more cleaning issues with it.
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Unread 11-01-2019, 11:58 AM   #32
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If I used the USG Durock full kit, I dont need to mud? I still put up Hardiebacker or durock or whatever and use the membrane? The floor is plastic (like that better than foam) and I dont need a shower pan liner then?

This actually seems like a decent choice and its about the same price as mudding, pan liner etc.. Plus no 2 layers of mud.
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Unread 11-01-2019, 12:15 PM   #33
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also can i use better bench with durock system as long as it all waterproofed? I guess mud it then waterproof it?

What about the grates can i use one of those tileable grates from oatey or anyone else instead of the durock ones or do i have to use the durock?
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Unread 11-01-2019, 12:54 PM   #34
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With any of the sheet membranes you don't need a second mud layer, but you have to use a compatible drain. With any premade pan, you will have to ensure that your floor is very flat, and very level, as the required slope comes from the pan, and it isn't level to begin with, the slope will be off. That's why many folks use a deck mud pan. Also, with premade, the drain has to be in the right spot, etc.

If I was using sheet membrane, I would not use Hardibacker as the wall substrate. It is very water thirsty, and will make placing the membrane more difficult than a CBU, or (with Kerdi) dry wall. Hardi is also a bear to snap.

I'm not familiar with the Durock system, but no matter what the pan is made of it still needs to be tied to the walls, and to the drain, so I am thinking it will need the sheet membrane over the whole thing. It just gives you a (hopefully) accurate sloped base.
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Unread 11-01-2019, 01:58 PM   #35
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I keep going back and forth between some sheet membrane or just old-fashioned plastic behind hardie backer..

I plan on adding niches and other a bench and all the sheet membrane manufacturers benches dont really sing to me.. and not a big fan of their niches.. prefer the screw in to the backerboard ones..

Still dont see much disadvantages to just putting plastic behind hardie and doing deck mud. I know to leave a gap above the deck mud and the hardie -- i put silicone there before..

and i dont mind cutting hardie with a circular saw.. yeah it generates a wee bit of dusk.. yeah you wear a mask..
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Unread 11-01-2019, 02:38 PM   #36
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with a niche and a bench I'd certainly elect to do a direct bonded waterproofing membrane shower.

If I were to build a traditional mud-liner-mud shower receptor and CBU walls, I'd want to use a real CBU wallboard (NOT a fiber/cement board) so I could anchor the bottom in the final mud bed. And I'd still plan on using a direct bonded waterproofing membrane in the niche area and I'd build a monument-style bench inside my waterproofed shower.

If I were, instead, to make mud walls in my traditional shower, which would be my personal choice if doing a traditional receptor, I'd know there are ways to do both the bench and niche without the direct bonded membranes and that I could do that.

But knowing the direct bonded waterproofing membranes are now readily available, I would still elect to use a sheet-type membrane for the entire shower just because mud has never been a daily activity for me and I can do the membrane more easily. If I felt real frisky and just wanted to mud a shower to prove that I still could, I'd mud it with a single sloped mud floor and then cover it with the Durock (soon to be renamed) Shower System membrane.

Lot of choices and they're all entirely up to you. But doing a CBU shower without using a direct bonded waterproofing membrane in the niche area is really not one of them, nor can you avoid mudding the shower curb in a traditional receptor with CBU walls.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 11-01-2019, 02:57 PM   #37
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You can make a niche however you want by framing it out in the joist space, and drywalling it. Then you put the Kerdi on like wrapping a present from the inside (there's a template in the liberry). Lets it be totally custom sized, totally waterproof.
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Unread 11-01-2019, 03:18 PM   #38
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The durock shower system looks really interesting.

However I would like to do 4 things with it.

1) use a better bench product https://www.contractorsdirect.com/Innovis-Better-Bench, but that involves screwing into hardie/durock, so I would have to membrane bench I guess? even tho the directions for the it just have you caulk the holes before you mud them. No membrane after.

2) use a recess it direct screwed in niche https://www.contractorsdirect.com/Innovis-Recess-It I could be convinced to use a different niche maybe.. But still want to add a shelf and havent found one with a pre-formed shelf i like.. Still like the tile-sandwich shelf

3) use hardiebacker over durock. Im familar with hardiebacker, but it sounds like more guys are suggesting durock?

4) yes add my metal soap dish i screw into the tiles..
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Unread 11-01-2019, 03:58 PM   #39
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1. Yes. With a bench that hangs off the wall, you just build it first, then waterproof it as part of the whole unit. Make sure it slopes.

2. When I did mine, I frames the niche, and drywalled it. Kerdi over the whole thing. When setting the tile, I tiled up the the shelf, with the sides angled a bit, rested a pair of matching bullnoses back to back on the lip, and tiles to the top. Looked pretty good.

3. Hardi is not the best material for this job.

4. So many reasons not to like it, but it is your shower! Suction cups on the wall? A tray in the niche? A metal dish is straight out of the 50s! In my opinion, of course! Make sure the screws don't penetrate the waterproof layer.
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Unread 11-01-2019, 04:06 PM   #40
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Sorry I'm slow. Why is Hardie bad?

Yeah I know on the soap dish. And yeah it would penetrate more than likely. That's what I'm trying to work out. Silicone isnt any good anymore ?
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Unread 11-01-2019, 04:13 PM   #41
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You can't embed Hardi in the mudbed. And Hardi is thirsty, so if you are applying a surface membrane you have to work quickly in smaller pieces. It just isn't the best choice.

Silicone will work, but not as well as not having a hole in the first place.
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Unread 11-01-2019, 04:16 PM   #42
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Ok so hardie is harder because of the applying thinset for membrane ok

Also I wouldn't put the hardie in the mud bud I would leave a gap and silicone it.

Or if I use durock system no mudbed
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Unread 11-01-2019, 04:25 PM   #43
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If you use Durock, you can embed it, so it is held solidly. The Hardi is kind of flapping in the breeze.
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Unread 11-01-2019, 04:39 PM   #44
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yeah understand on the hardie -- i left the bottom 4 inches or so not attached before it was pretty solid, but i understand your flapping in the wind concept..

back on the bench i found this: https://www.contractorsdirect.com/Go...of-Shower-Seat No mud at all.. looks even easier.
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Unread 11-01-2019, 07:09 PM   #45
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Travis, with the Better Bench when using a direct bonded waterproofing membrane you simply waterproof the walls of the shower, then install the bench per the manufacturer's instructions. I always use the same waterproofing membrane to cover the top and front of the bench after filling with mortar, but it's not required. They work quite well in my experience.

Like this:

Name:  Better Bench.jpg
Views: 78
Size:  51.1 KB

I always install blocking behind the wallboard whenever I plan to use those benches.



My opinion; worth price charged.
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