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Unread 03-12-2021, 10:11 PM   #16
Sclib
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Small pits in pre slope

So I didn’t get the membrane down today. Worked on raising and sloping the curb, knocking blocking back a little and shaving some areas low on studs to prepare for membrane (thanks again for the direction CX) and patched a few small areas in the pre slope.

Are these small soft spots (few the size of a quarter and couple the size of half a dollar Bill....all irregular in shape) in the mortar normal? I’m sorry I didn’t get any photos. What seems to have happened is mortar dried soft or powdery in these areas and then revealed these spots when I swept up loose sand from top of mortar. None of them were any deeper than 1/4 (most about 1/8-1/16” deep). I put some mud in them and smoothed them to the slope and plan on not sweeping them in morning and just installing membrane. Rest of the mortar is solid.

Again, is this normal? Water will surely still find its way down the slope.

Any comment on these soft spots?

Pics of raised, sloped curb.
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Unread 03-13-2021, 08:09 AM   #17
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Any depressions in the mud pre slope offer an opportunity for the liner to lay in those depression and, thus, for water to pool in stead of draining.

I've never done a mud bed but have read a lot of threads here about it. For those areas that the mud was loose my guess is that it possibly wasn't mixed thoroughly enough. I've also read that you typically don't want to install fresh mud onto mud that has already dried/cured as it my not bond well. For those relatively shallow depressions filling them with thinset mortar might have been a better choice as it will bond to the mud.

Still, this is the pre slope. If the fills you have done seem to be holding in place then I think you're in good shape.

Good job sloping the curb, that's what you want. I'd probably jam some more shims in there.

Folded shower pan liner can become quite thick, be sure the 2X's that make up your corners are cut back sufficiently to accommodate the thickness.
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Unread 03-13-2021, 09:11 AM   #18
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Thinset

Thanks Dan, I will go out this morning and see if the patches in the pan are holding. I sort of thought the same thing about dry pack not sticking in shallow hole.....Thinset is a good idea. If patches are loose, I will remove the loose dry pack and smooth some Thinset in the minor depressions and call it good. It’s really only about 4 small areas and probably only amounts to 1/16 or less of the overall pan area.

Have a good weekend and stay safe out there!!!
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Last edited by Sclib; 03-13-2021 at 10:17 AM. Reason: Clarify
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Unread 03-13-2021, 11:39 AM   #19
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Help please. Thinset under dry pack?

Thinking I might have made an error and need advice please. I did my mortar pre slope over concrete a couple days ago. Looking back at videos I see some guys putting Thinset on concrete before putting down pre slope mortar bed. I did not put down Thinset. Is this a problem? Don’t really want to tear it out but now is the time to do it if necessary.

Thanks in advance!!!!
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Unread 03-13-2021, 02:20 PM   #20
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You should see all guys putting down a slurry of thinset mortar or pure Portland cement before placing a bonded mud bed for any application. That's what makes a bonded mud bed bonded, eh?

Will you get by with what you've got? Maybe. The pre-slope is part of your plumbing and there are really no specifics for making one in the tile industry. Tile industry says only that you must have one and that the waterproofing membrane must be properly sloped to drain.

In as much as you'll need to do a very good job of the top mortar bed when you get to that, I would recommend you remove what you've got, call it practice, and make a new mortar bed properly bonded to your concrete. Material is dirt cheap. Labor is free.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 03-13-2021, 03:57 PM   #21
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Thanks

CX, thanks for the quick response. With this self caused setback, I am going to quit for the weekend and pick everything back up Monday. Looks like I’ve got a little demo ahead of me

Stay safe out there!!!
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Unread 03-16-2021, 10:49 PM   #22
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Progress

Ok, so after much consternation, I will be breaking out the preslope and re installing. Thinset will go down on the concrete slab first, then build new preslope on wet, groove troweled Thinset...Right?

In the meantime, I have made a little more progress to get walls ready for Durock. Blocking knocked back and studs chiseled out to allow for membrane to be installed without bowing CBU at bottom.

Also cut Sheetrock above showerhead level another 4” +/-. CBU will run up above showerhead then tile will continue up over Sheetrock to ceiling. Roughed up paint in this sheetrocked, painted area and wiped clean with tsp.

Lots of other stuff in the way this week but hope to have new and improved preslope in by this weekend.

If you guys have any comments before the new preslope goes down, PLEASE let me know.

In appreciation,
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Unread 03-17-2021, 11:25 AM   #23
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Scott,

Still don't see full edge backing for your durock sheets in the NW corner that CX mentioned earlier.
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Unread 03-17-2021, 01:14 PM   #24
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Scott, the tile industry standards call for a "slurry" of Portland cement or thinset mortar for bonding mortar beds to concrete. You could actually notch thinset mortar on there if you want, but I generally apply mine with a 6-inch masonry brush.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 03-17-2021, 08:21 PM   #25
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Pre Slope removal and Thinset slurry

Thanks CX.....I will paint Thinset on tomorrow just prior to new pre slope construction.

Old pre slope is no longer (RIP). Broke up original non-bonded (hoping that’s my biggest mistake during this project....It certainly will cause me to ask more questions than I already do prior to next steps). For anyone who reads this now or in the future, and makes the mistake of not putting down the bonding coat, the pre slope I took out was rock hard and solid. I am relatively certain that all would have been good with non bonded pre slope (under same conditions as mine....walled on 3 sides with Curb at front). Also, in my case, this shower is in a Casita (Guesthouse) which gets used maybe 25% of the year.....so not as many showers as a normal shower (that does not mean it needs to be inferior quality but, just saying). Anyhooo, it’s done now and I will take another stab at it tomorrow. Hope this help others.

Stay safe out there!!!
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Unread 03-17-2021, 08:52 PM   #26
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Thumbs up Thanks Big Phil

Thanks Big Phil for staying on the full edge corner. I wasn’t ignoring it, I honestly thought CX was talking about the opposite corner and didn’t think he was seeing the 2x4s V’d in that right corner. I see it now (duh) and will make sure to get 2x4 or full blocking in that left rear corner prior to hanging Durock
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Unread 03-17-2021, 09:42 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott
Thanks CX.....I will paint Thinset on tomorrow just prior to new pre slope construction.
Don't think of it as paint, Scott. Gotta be substantially thicker than that. When I say masonry brush, I'm talking about the big 6 or 8-inch wide by 1 1/4-inch or so thick kinda brush. And the slurry should be like very thick tomato soup or thin pancake batter (now these guys have got me using the food analogies! ). You want something that's gonna bond the dry-pack mortar to the concrete.

And speaking of concrete, your dry-pack should not be like concrete. It's a very different animal. If you look in the Shower Construction thread in our Liberry you'll find a good article on how to make deck mud/dry-pack/mortar-bed properly. Not terribly important on a pre-slope, but you want practice for the top mortar bed which does need to be the correct stuff.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 03-18-2021, 06:07 AM   #28
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Yours is the first project I’ve seen posted that is a lot like mine. Tho, I’m using a prefab base pan.

Are your wall studs even?

I’m running into an issue where the backer board is going to meet the existing drywall at the top. Yours look pretty flush. I have one stud that is 1/4 inch out of plumb and I’m worried I’m going to have too much of a lip when I shim it out.

Curious how you’re making out and what your plan is.

Your wall vs my wall
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Unread 03-18-2021, 08:04 AM   #29
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Out of plumb

Cobra 1365, I have had a level on all my studs and everything looks good so far. Praying 1/2 CBU will marry nicely with the existing Sheetrock...no shimming required. Only things I had to do was add a corner stud (still to be done) and shave 1/4” at bottom of studs and push bottom blocking in a little to accommodate for my membrane folds.....if you read thread a couple of the guys here caught those.

Sounds like you might have some shaving of studs ahead of you??? Other thing I have seen done is a sort of reveal where CBU meets Sheetrock. It’s sort of a step down from CBU to Sheetrock Vertically where they meet. Don’t think it would look good at top (only seen it done on sides) so would mean taking tile all the way to ceiling.

I can post more when I start hanging the CBU but so far that aspect is looking good.

Stay safe and good luck with your project.
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Unread 03-18-2021, 08:45 AM   #30
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Slurry and preslope hardness

Thanks CX....I will lather on the thinset for bonding.

Also, I have read all pre slope and mortar bed threads in the Liberry (as well as other places).

As far as the consistency of the preslope, I should have been more specific about the hardness. It was not like concrete.....once I got a couple chunks out, it came apart in big and small pieces....pieces were easily broken....per all the sand in mix. I used a pre mixed sand and cement mixture and was very confident in the moisture content. Not to dry, not to wet....just right (said Little Red Riding Hood). Ready material held together when squeezed into my fist, then broke into 2 or 3 pieces when dropped back into the mixing pan. I was just trying to make a point when I said it was rock hard and solid, but I do appreciate the reminder. I plan on mixing pre slope and top bed same as I did original preslope........seemed like it would have the right porous quality to let water seep thru to the membrane and slope merrily down to the drain

Be safe out there!!
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