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Unread 01-26-2022, 02:06 AM   #46
travisinfla
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I am going to hire a professional to take it from here not worth a divorce.
Too bad I really enjoy doing this stuff, but I understand that a person who does this for a living (at least a good one) will do a better job than I can because they do it day in and day out. At least now I will be in a better position to know whether the pro is doing it right or cutting corners. So I will get a few estimates and hear what they have to say.
Ill leave the bench in for now. I'm a little confused what's underneath the shower floor tile, so I am going to hunt down the builder GC for details.
Isn't it odd that the area where the bench was built was about 4 inches lower than the rest of the shower floor. Wouldn't that have become a moisture trap. Well it obviously was - as you can see it is wet. What was the shower floor built with, can you tell from 2nd photo what its made off. Sorry it's upside down. It looks like tile, thinset over 3 inches of concrete.
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Unread 01-26-2022, 09:27 PM   #47
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Travis, when vetting your new contractor, please ask specifically about his waterproofing plan/method. He should have a waterproofing system and plan in mind, not just a product.

Come back here and tell us what that plan/system is so that we can help you figure out if you are selecting the right contractor. When I say "we/us" I'm talking about those of us who have been here a while, but specifically the pros here who take time out of their day to help guys like you and me who don't do this for a living.

The ability to create a beautiful shower has nothing to do with creating a waterproof shower. Harder to find someone who can do both. Many of those guys hang out here.
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Unread 01-27-2022, 10:17 PM   #48
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If it wasn't for you guys I'd really be in the dark, so appreciate it. It helped me write a strong letter to MI Homes that it wasn't a poor tile job but a no waterproofing job, and if they did that with the bench then what else did they not do with the rest of the shower. So today, we got a call from Manasota Flooring, to come see it Tuesday. They said over the phone they would not be happy if it was their shower based on those photos provided. So a sliver of hope they rectify it. So this is a curbless recessed shower. The concrete slab underneath the entire shower floor is probably 5 to 6 inches lower than the floors in the rest of the house. They built the bench directly onto the recessed floor slab. The recessed bench area within the shower was a water trap imo. Then after the bench was constructed, they did a 3-4 inch concrete pre slope around the shower walls ending at the front of bench. Then they just tiled over the preslope with thinset with no waterproofing method whatsoever on the shower floor or bench. Not sure about the walls, but definitely none of it was tied in properly. So there are a lot of problems. They may be able to pass code with no waterproofing the shower floor in Florida but I won't accept it. Water needs to go down the drain, no into the earth or sit at the bottom of a concrete floor. The bench was not waterproofed into the walls. I wonder if I need to remove the concrete bench so that they can waterproof the floor under it and walls behind it? Or is that not necessary so long as they use a topical waterproofing method on the walls, tied over the bench, tied into the shower floor?
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Unread 01-28-2022, 07:26 AM   #49
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The bench does not have to be removed to do waterproofing, but of course you have to have access to the walls and floor. In fact waterproofing under the bench is not a good idea. Even Schluter recommends waterproofing over the top of their benches, not underneath them, and their benches are made of polystyrene, so..... But it does have to be tied in with everything around it.
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Unread 01-28-2022, 07:30 AM   #50
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If the water proofing on the bench can be properly tied into the water proofing on the walls and floor you shouldn't need to remove the bench, or water proof anything behind or under it, Travis.

Given what you have, especially the large recess where the bench is, the only water proofing methods I'd consider is water proof foam panels and sheet membrane, or all sheet membrane, including the floor.
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Unread 01-29-2022, 01:54 PM   #51
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Thanks for you guys giving straight talk about the total redo. I think I had to go through the 5 stages of grief - denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. At acceptance now haha.
The builder's sub is coming out next week, hopefully not the same one that did it.
I hired my own to come out the week after that to evaluate it.
A few more questions
1) How can you tell whether they used thinset or mastic? (See photos 1-3)
2) They used Durock, but covered it with a grey/orange waterproof exterior paint? (See photos 4-5). It could be this https://semcosurfaces.com/liquidmembrane/ Take it that is not acceptable.
3) The tub surround is bowed towards the tub, why? Is that because they built the enclosure too high so the weight of the tub pulled it down?
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Unread 01-29-2022, 04:25 PM   #52
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1. Can't tell from out here. When you try to remove some, you'll note either a fairly hard, rather brittle substance, which is likely a cement-based thinset mortar. If what you remove has a more plastic texture, it's likely an organic adhesive (ANSI A136.1), aka mastic.

But, keep in mind that such organic adhesives are approved for use on your tub walls and your shower walls, but not your shower floor and there would be argument about your bench. It's not the material you want used in the shower, but if used correctly your argument against it as inappropriate would not likely be well taken.

2. The orange material that you linked does appear to meet ANSI A118.10 requirements as a direct bonded waterproofing membrane. I've never heard of it. The gray material, I have no idea.

3. 'Fraid I'm not understanding that one. You're talking about the walls surrounding the tub?

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-29-2022, 06:17 PM   #53
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OK thanks, it was fairly hard and brittle so it's likely thinset, will see what they say they used on #2.
As far as 3, not the walls, I have no idea what the proper term is, drop in tub, the surface around it that is tiled, the it slopes towards the tub, see photo.
Question on shower floor, the preslope seems good, quite the funnel, can they just remove the tile, patch it up, add waterproof new drain, and then just tile over top, or do they need to tear out the entire pre slope to the slab foundation.
I'm 95% sure the shower floor was not waterproofed because code does not require it. Obviously the bench was not, and they blew it there. How do you waterproof a bench completely without waterproofing the shower floor? Even if they had waterproofed the walls to the top and face of the bench, then couldn't it still take in water where the shower floor met the front base of the bench?
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Unread 01-29-2022, 11:00 PM   #54
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One after another

So the grey wasn't paint or waterproof membrane. The grey was sheetrock. See photos. The drywall photos show at 3/4 of shower walls were done with the grey sheetrock and top 1/4 regular sheetrock. Then in the more current photo you can see Durock on the knee wall that they either replaced or put on top of the sheetrock. They may have cut the bottom 1/4 of the shower sheetrock and replaced with Durock because I noticed it around the bench. Anyhow, they didn't waterproof the sheetrock or durock.
As far as the shower drain, looks like they did a 3-4" preslope over dirt
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Unread 01-29-2022, 11:03 PM   #55
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Then switch durock

Had change of heart after inspection maybe so put Durock in the knee wall, I dont know.
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Unread 01-29-2022, 11:07 PM   #56
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Think this was the grey

https://www.lowes.com/pd/FIBEROCK-Br...ard/1003203320

iit's not the necessarily the board they used right? its the failure of waterproofing, regardless of whether it's intended for wet area, so now im very confident they used no waterproofing in the shower at all, in fact the whole house
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Unread 01-29-2022, 11:14 PM   #57
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2nd bath

2nd shower, no issues, never use it, but no waterproofing, how does that pass inspection
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Unread 01-29-2022, 11:31 PM   #58
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Maybe a proper traditional waterproof method

The block walls are covered in FiFoil VR Plus Shield https://www.fifoil.com/product/p/vr-plus-shield
VR Plus Shield is a multi-layer reflective insulation for use on furred-out masonry walls. This unique insulation has multiple layers that separate when installed to create three reflective air spaces, with R-values up to R-7.1 on 1.5” furring. VR Plus is available in both a standard, non-perforated version that functions as a vapor retarder, and Hi-Perm, a perforated version that allows vapor transmission

They used the HI perm perforated version which has a Water Vapor Permeance of 2.6
Why the shift to perforated Hi-Perm products?
As building envelopes are getting tighter, building scientists, energy centers and research organizations are suggesting that insulation products and facings used in hot humid climates have higher perm ratings for increased water vapor transmission. Fi-Foil's Hi-Perm versions are designed to meet or exceed these recommendations.
I don't think this would qualify as a traditional waterproof would it
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Unread 01-31-2022, 08:07 PM   #59
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bath tub

Tub Surround appears like Durock on wall of tub, 1/4 hardibacker on top of top, and wall near tub
the tub sags inwards maybe 1/4 hardibacker overtop of OSB was not good idea.
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Unread 01-31-2022, 08:47 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis
...how does that pass inspection[?]
You're in Florida, Travis.

There is a line in the building code that allows building a shower receptor with no waterproof liner so long as the shower floor is recessed at least two inches at the time of the foundation pour and is an integral part of the rest of the concrete.

I can tell you from experience that it can work just fine so long as the walls are properly waterproofed all the way down into the recess.

But even that code section makes no note at all, that I've ever found, about what kind of drain is to be used nor how the floor is to be connected to such drain.

It's really a bad deal all around in my view. But in your case, with no effort at all to waterproof the walls, I just wouldn't accept the shower construction. Not sure just what you should do, as it is very likely that your local code compliance inspector will pass everything you've shown us here.

If you ask for, or demand, a shower that meets the requirements of the ANSI standards for tile shower construction, or complies with one of the Methods in the NTCA Handbook, I expect you'll be met with blank stares.

Wish I could help. Don't think I can.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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