Happy Dad's Shower Project

[1HappyDad]

Not sure how to quote on a mobile device..

Davy -- there is no shower door. The shower is 5'4w X 8' deep. A large rectangle if you will.

CX - Feel free to change the thread title to a more fitting subject; I apologize. This is more or less..I"m learning as I go kind of thing. The shower has kicked my rear end as I'm frustrated and inexperienced...making me a bit uncomfortable....but I'm trying to learn and push forward.

I'm confident there is more than 1/4" / ft fall from each corner. I am stopping by work tomrorow to get my 2' and 4' digital levels out of my work truck. That will give the answer that I seek.

The final mud bed I should have just at 1 1/4" +/-.

The mud bed that I removed from the old shower was *maybe* 1-1/2" - 2" thick at the thickest point. No water proofing, no pan liner, etc. The shower slab dropped down 4" from the floor slab grade. The shower slab was perfectly level once the old mud bed was removed.


I would prefer to use a liner -- after this mold/water incident that sparked this entire gut/remodel..I'm super gun shy and want potential leaks or even the thought of a leak..anywhere.

The area outside of the pan -- It was recommended to put redgard on the slab. Durorock will be used for the backerboard, so that will be covered as well. Thickness will be verified with a wet film gauge (as suggested by other thread that I have read)

Anyways, here is a layout of the shower. Don't mind the floor -- Just finished up skim coating the ceiling. It's all clean now and will be ready for tile soon.

https://imgur.com/a/hsX0LOU

Not sure if you are able to zoom in, but the old mud bed was 'barely there'. No weep holes in the drain and seemed constructed rather poorly.

https://imgur.com/que0Xh8

[Davy]

Both, the preslope and top mud bed needs 1/4 inch per ft slope.

Whichever waterproofing system you use, you want it to be one continuous layer all the way to the bath floor and it can also go out onto the bath floor as Cx mentioned. To use a pan liner, the slab will need to be lowered all the way out to the bath floor. I can't tell if you have the whole shower floor lowered or not.

Edit; This is a divot drain set up. Looking at your pictures again, looks like maybe half of the shower floor is lowered for the pan liner. Not sure how you plan to tie Redgard in with the liner. Keep in mind, tile is bonded directly to surface type membranes (paint on like below and sheet type ) . You can't stick tiles directly to a pan liner, it needs another mud bed over it.

[1HappyDad]

I checked the slope on my other shower; it is right at 1/4" fall

The pre-slope in the shower I am working on is between 1/8" and 1/4". I'm thinking that I may have enough room with the pan mud to build in more slope; or at least I'm hoping I will =( There is a good 1-1/4" --> 1-1/2" of buildup to go.

The entire shower floor is lowered about 4"; it is a drop down shower..or was.

[cx]

James, if you'll add a geographic location to your User Profile it will be helpful in responding to some types of questions. With a shower with no waterproof liner we can guess you're somewhere in Florida, but it's better not to be guessing.

If you've currently got only 1 1/4" of height remaining in your shower area you technically cannot continue with a traditional receptor which requires the top mud bed to be a minimum of 1 1/2" thickness. You can continue with less if you want, but that's the industry standard requirement.

And with your intended curbless design, you'll find it very difficult to chip out enough concrete beyond the shower footprint to make your waterproofing adequate.

But with a direct bonded waterproofing membrane system you are still in a good position to make that work just fine.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[1HappyDad]

CX - I thought I previously adjusted my location -- apparently it did not save. I attempted again and hopefully it works :-)

The 1-1/4 height difference is from the pre slope grade to the slab grade (remember it's a drop down shower getting built up).

So at this point I can either do a pan liner or the redgard for waterproofing?

Would more detailed photos of the work area give a better idea of what I'm working on?

Thank you all so much.

[cx]

Originally Posted by CX, Post 34

If you've currently got only 1 1/4" of height remaining in your shower area you technically cannot continue with a traditional receptor which requires the top mud bed to be a minimum of 1 1/2" thickness. You can continue with less if you want, but that's the industry standard requirement.

And with your intended curbless design, you'll find it very difficult to chip out enough concrete beyond the shower footprint to make your waterproofing adequate.

Your shower, you can do whatever you want.

I would personally not use RedGard, nor any other liquid-applied direct bonded waterproofing membrane, as my waterproofing in a shower receptor, but it's done. I would recommend you use one of the sheet-type membranes for that purpose.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[1HappyDad]

Went back and measured; I have 1-3/4" drop from the floor slab going to the pre-slope

At the entrance, facing the exterior wall


Looking at the opposite wall that backs to the toilet room. The tile contractor advised me that he will build a slope from the entrance / wall (where the fan is) into the floor..towards the shower drain. There will also be a threshold across the entrance. The drain has a lot of adjustment for what it's worth.







I woudl much rather use a pan liner versus redgard.

Also, the tile contractor said to put redgard on the slab where he will be building the slope up to ensure that is is waterproof. ??

Thank you again.

[cx]

Originally Posted by James

Looking at the opposite wall that backs to the toilet room. The tile contractor advised me that he will build a slope from the entrance / wall (where the fan is) into the floor..towards the shower drain. There will also be a threshold across the entrance.

Across the entrance to the room, or the entrance to the shower?

What material is he planning to use for the sloped floor?

The problem with using a traditional shower receptor waterproofing is how to terminate it at the shower opening when you have no shower curb. You need to determine what the plan is for that and, again, I've found that to be very difficult to do even sorta correctly.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[1HappyDad]

Threshold at the shower area entrance.


I’m not sure of the material, he did not specify. Is there something that I should recommend or ensure that he uses?


The pan liner termination..I’m confused. The tile contractor said to roll it over the edge and terminate on the slab. Another suggestion was to terminate on the slope, glue the pan liner to the Vertical climb with x15 bonding agent and seal with a waterproofing membrane

[Davy]

This is what I was talking about earlier. If you place the pan liner down into the lower part of shower and Redgard on the higher area, how do you tie the two materials together?

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think your installer has thought this thru.

If I were planning to use a pan liner, I would have dropped the slab 4 inches in the whole shower area. Installed the pan liner and had plenty room for the mud bed on top of the liner. Of course the drain would have had to be set lower.

[cx]

What Davy said. And I'm afraid I can't follow this at all:

Originally Posted by James

The tile contractor said to roll it over the edge and terminate on the slab. Another suggestion was to terminate on the slope, glue the pan liner to the Vertical climb with x15 bonding agent and seal with a waterproofing membrane

Glue to what with X15?

[1HappyDad]

Haven’t had time to mess with the shower again. Finishing up my drywall, texturing and finding tile.

Just brainstorming..if I added a 2” or 4” curb at the opening, would this help the drain situation without having to tear this thing out?

[ss3964spd]

I, too, have no idea how your contractor intends to pull this off. Sloping the floor from the entrance? "Rolling" the liner over that short vertical edge? How exactly does he intent to affix the liner to the slab? Adhering the liner to the short vertical edge with X15 then covering the seam with membrane? What will he use to adhere the membrane to the liner?

A curb might well solve all of this, but the drain will probably need to be raised.

[1HappyDad]

[strike]Please forgive me for poor formatting/errors. Going on little sleep as I have been up very late to the wee hours of the morning finishing up the drywall work preparing for texturing before I hang the Durorock. BUT! The durorock can't be hung until this darn pan situation gets figured out.

.....


So after they left, I checked the slope using a smart level and also a manual level.

Looking at the shower wall...plumbing and valve on your left, knee wall on your right.

There is 3/8" slope going to the drain at all areas, I checked every few inches.
Along the walls is level if you put a level parallel with the wall, flip the level towards the drain and there is 3/8" fall to the drain

For reference, I checked my other shower, it has 3/8" fall towards the drain with one spot that has 1/4" fall to the drain.

The pan is set and the intent is to use a method that I found here on the forums called a "Houston method". They did this with the mud bed and it cured quite well. However as previously noted, it has 1/8" fall towards the drain. I'm still half tempted to tear it all out and re-do it myself.

The pan has a slight lip above the slab to get the slope to the drain, the intent is to build up the existing slab to allow 1/4" fall towards the shower drain. My understanding is the intent is to coat the slab with redgard to seal it, float a bit of self leveler into the shower area and build up with thinset.

In regards to the pan liner....there seems to be a bit of Confusion. Im asking if it could be secured to the slab and folded over (see pics) but I"m being told it will be cut off, waterproofing membrane over the edge and then thinset/tile.

Another thing I noticed from reading the forum and digging the instructions for the pan/drain up..there should be pea gravel or finely broken tile around the drain for the weep holes. I think I can set the slope back myself so I may remove the 4:1, clean the weep holes and install 4" of pea gravel around the drain as indicated on the instructions.


I have done the entire bathroom myself up until this point. Completely overwhelmed and lacking confidence with the shower pan/waterproofing as I am terrified of a leak at this point. Maybe I'm overthinking things but all of this is new and I'm very green. Hired out the work and I'm even more worried now.

Anyways here are some photos.

Older photo, standing in the shower, looking at the entrance to the left where the fan is. This was the mud bed after it was put in and the fan blew on it all night. The slope will run from the wall back to the pan at a proposed 1/4"


Another view




Shower pan in and ready for the houston method






An in-progress pic


One more



Not really sure what I'm looking at but it looks to be ok having a 3/8" slope like my other shower. The corners were cut and folded using the oatley pan sealer stuff. I purchased the pan, it was a 6x10 if that matters.

This project is getting to me. I have mostly enjoyed it up until this point

Thank you all so kindly again for your priceless guidance.

[cx]

Some confusion on my part. You're saying you have a total difference in height from the slab outside the shower to the top of your drain, correct?

I'm afraid I just can't grasp their thinking on how they plan to connect the RedGard on the bathroom floor to the PVC pan liner that's cut flush with the top of the bathroom slab.

The whole thing is just not working for me and it would all have been rather simple had they just abandoned the traditional receptor method and done the entire room with a direct bonded waterproofing membrane. What they're trying to do just makes no sense to me at all.

My opinion; worth price charged.