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Unread 01-11-2014, 12:25 PM   #1
caleb7777
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Advice on curb build, shower, and floor layers

Hi everyone, this is a great forum and I found most of my answers already

I wanted to know why the curb is recommended to be made with screen and mortar? Can I just build a curb from wood and smooth sides and top grade with thinset, then membrane everything and thinset and tile over? I noticed that the guide shows using mortar over the curb first and was wondering if that is just for the install with the liner.

Here is what I had planned to do:

my subfloor is currently 3 layers of new 1/2" plywood for a total of 1.5" plywood

I would like to build a curb from 2x4 and plywood then get my straight sides and 1/4" grade on top using thinset. Install a linear drain inside new curb (laticrete linear drain) build mortar bed to it staying low over 1/2 inch. Place in a heated floor (warmwire or similar), thinset over that, apply laticrete hydro ban to whole shower and curb, then thinset and tile to come up to my linear drain height. Does this sound appropriate or would you recommend anything? Is the hydro ban alone sufficient over the radiant element as an uncoupling membrane or should I also have ditra in shower floor?

Any advice is appreciated!

Bathroom floor:
1.5" plywood
radiant heat wire
self level concrete
laticrete hydroban
thinset
tile

shower curb:
1.5" plywood
wood curb
thinset
laticrete hydro ban
thinset
tile

shower:
1.5" plywood
laticrete linear drain and mortar bed
radiant heat wire
thinset
laticrete hydro ban
thinset
tile


Is this appropriate or what would you recommend?

Thank You!
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Unread 01-11-2014, 02:05 PM   #2
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Welcome, Caleb.

The metal lath and fat mud method of curb building is meant to provide a way to install a tile installation surface at the curb without penetrating the traditional pan liner with mechanical fasteners. Has no bearing at all for any other type of shower receptor, including direct bonded waterproofing membranes such as your Hydroban.

Whatever else you do in your shower construction, you do not want to use thinset mortar for bonding directly to dimension wood. And in all cases with which I'm familiar that would also apply to plywood surfaces in a wet area.

I'm not understanding part of your plan, such as:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb
...build mortar bed to it staying low over 1/2 inch.
If you're planning to use deck mud for a sloped shower floor over wood-framed subfloor, I'd recommend it be a minimum of 3/4" thick at the thinnest point.

Your three layers of half-inch plywood may or may not be a good subfloor, depending upon how each layer was installed. Starting with a half-inch, non-T&G, plywood as a first layer is a very poor idea. Adding a second layer of half-inch plywood can be helpful if it's properly glue-laminated to the first layer. That makes a very good first layer if done correctly. Then your third layer of plywood would make a good second layer if properly attached (not glued) to the first layer.

But what you have is what you've got and we'll all help you hope it was well done.

I recommend you decide for sure what your waterproofing plan will be and then construct your shower to meet the waterproofing product's requirements. Your curb, for instance, will need to be covered with an appropriate CBU the same as your walls. Or, of course, you could cover it with a cleavage membrane, lath, and fat mud as in a traditional pan and waterproof over that.

But try not to mix the methods at all and keep it to a minimum if you think you must mix them some. Good idea to make it all one method or system.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-11-2014, 03:47 PM   #3
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Thanks cx

The 1/2 inch note just meant that I was leaving that much space to allow for radiant floor and tile build up before being flush with drain edge.

So you recommend that CBU is required around the curb as wood alone will not bond, OK

Waterproofing is being done with laticrete hydro ban. It looks like a great product to me. I haven't used it.

The subfloor is very solid, I laid all three layers with screws.

There will only be CBU on the curb then, there are no walls. This is going to be a 4 wall glass shower.

But I can still mortar down onto plywood for the shower base and use self level cement for the rest of the room over the plywood?
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Unread 01-11-2014, 05:36 PM   #4
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Caleb, Hydroban is indeed a good and useful product, but if you're planning to use it I recommend you visit the manufacturer's Technical Data Sheet and read all about it before you go any further.

If you find any information in there saying you can use the product over dimension wood, go for it. If you find information in there that says you can use the product over plywood and gypsum wallboard in interior applications, keep in mind that does not mean the interior of your shower, eh?

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-11-2014, 06:19 PM   #5
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I don't plan on applying hydro ban to any dimensional wood or plywood. I wanted to apply hydro ban to entire bathroom once curb is built, drain and mortar are in, and radiant floor is down.

I just want to know what substrate is required for the curb. You said I can't just apply thinset to wooden curb to shape it.

So I assume you want me to wrap curb in cement board then thinset to shape? Then would I be ready for my membrane?
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Unread 01-11-2014, 07:57 PM   #6
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Good.

You don't shape anything with thinset mortar. It's for bonding ceramic tiles and sometimes for filling the gaps in CBUs and such. But it's not for shaping or flattening or leveling.

For your curb, if you're starting with a wood frame, you make that of an appropriate size and shape that when it is covered with CBU it is the size and shape you want it to be to accommodate your tile.

The other option is, if you want to do some shaping after the wood curb is in place, is to cover the wood with roofing felt, staple on some metal lath, and use fat mud to make the curb the shape you're looking for. Definitely can provide a little flexibility.

Then you can apply your Hydroban directly over your mud curb as you would with a CBU curb.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-12-2014, 02:06 PM   #7
caleb7777
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OK so to confirm my install will look like this then as per your recommendations...

Bathroom floor:
1.5" plywood
radiant heat wire
self level concrete
laticrete hydroban
thinset
tile

shower curb:
1.5" plywood
wood curb
screwed on CBU
thinset to gill gaps etc
laticrete hydro ban
thinset
tile

shower:
1.5" plywood
laticrete linear drain and mortar bed
radiant heat wire
thinset to bury wire
laticrete hydro ban
thinset
tile

All three areas will be get hydro ban at the same time so that everything is sealed
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Unread 03-06-2016, 03:25 PM   #8
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Advice on building curb side out to match linear drain

My project is finally moving ahead. I had to jack up side of the house and put flooring on hold until that was done. I have been taking pictures and will show my whole project on this thread once I finish.

Today's question: On the side of curb next to linear drain I will have to build curb out to get the tile to be flush with liner drain. I was going to thinset some 1/4" hardibacker to curb to build it out then apply my tiles but after searching here I found comments that hardibacker is not a true CBU and perhaps shouldn't be used. How would you recommend I build up curb side to meet shower drain?
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Unread 03-08-2016, 01:25 PM   #9
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can someone recommend how they would build up the curb sidewall as pictured? the linear drain has a 1 inch flange around so this must be common
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Unread 03-08-2016, 04:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
but after searching here I found comments that hardibacker is not a true CBU and perhaps shouldn't be used.
Um, yeah it is. Its in a different class because Hardie made their own class for themselves. Just like Schluter did for Ditra. Its like saying brown eggs are different than white eggs.

Use the Hardie, just don't use fasteners through the redguard unless you coat the hardie with a new layer of red guard.
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Unread 03-08-2016, 05:03 PM   #11
caleb7777
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thank you.

about my class comment, i was referring to how others on here said hardi is a fiber-cement board and not a cement board and can't always be used the same.

I just wanted to make sure it was ok for this use. cheers.
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